Verb, Delay, etc – what else can Return channels be used 4?

Citizen · Post by **Citizen** » Sat May 02, 2015 9:49 am

I haven't really changed my default template a whole lot since I started using Live – same ol:

A: Short Reverb
B: Long Reverb
C: Short Delay
D: Long Delay
E: Exciter

...what else could one put on Return channels that would be of regular use? Just curious.

TomViolenz · Post by **TomViolenz** » Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 am

Well that would depend on how you want your music to sound, no?!

The general answer is: pretty much anything.

I for instance always have some saturation and distortion, put sometimes I play around a little and put Resonators, delays, even Corpus on it.

So YMwill most definitelyV

Citizen · Post by **Citizen** » Sat May 02, 2015 10:21 am

OK, cool - I mean, obviously you could put pretty much ANYTHING in there, but I wouldn't really get a whole lot of milage out of having, say, a Phaser as a return.

Just looking for cool ideas. I'll probably just end up putting some freaky delays in there!

TomViolenz · Post by **TomViolenz** » Sat May 02, 2015 10:47 am

Well without knowing what sort of music you try to make, the question can not be meaningfully answered anyways.

Weird electronic genres? Anything goes.
Rock? Distortion, Saturation, maybe a Chorus
Pop? Reverbs galore and Chorus

Classic orchestra pieces? Heck, if I know...

I would say as a general rule of thumb: Anything you hear in your genre of choice as insert effects is worth a try as a send effect as well. Experiment and let your ears decide.

musikmachine · Post by **musikmachine** » Sat May 02, 2015 10:59 am

I know a couple of producers that put an EQ with an exaggerated S curve on it and a little bit of that on tracks can add excite things, another one is distortion and saturation as mentioned and a highpassed modulation effect can be used to add width to a sub bass without affecting the lower frequencies. Recently tried Corpus tuned to a kick drum to add some body to it, similar effect to sidechaining a sinewave.

NoSonic822 · Post by **NoSonic822** » Sat May 02, 2015 12:35 pm

SUPER FAT HUGE PINGPONG PHAZER VERB

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Sat May 02, 2015 1:16 pm

Q: what can return channels be used for?

A: FEEDBACK!!!!

Enable the sends to themselves and create an effects feedback matrix where, say, a delay feeds into a reverb which then feeds into a beat repeat which then feeds an auto filter which then feeds into... yup... Whatever you first had. Bung a few limiters in strategic places so that things don't go thermonuclear too quickly, sit back and enjoy the results!!

(Those Jamaicans were on to something)

oblique strategies · Post by **oblique strategies** » Sat May 02, 2015 1:21 pm

Returns can be routed directly to the outputs of audio interfaces for multi-speaker sound or external effects & signal processors. Track Sends can be automated by various methods for spatialized audio & other purposes. Audio can be sent to as many outputs & speakers as you have available.

My quad template has:
Returns A, B, C, D reserved for internal & external effects (using the External Audio Effect device)
Returns E, F, G, H each routed to a separate speaker set around the listening area
Max for Live is handling spatialization duties by automating the Sends

You can also use Returns as busses for stems or mixing as an alternative to grouping tracks.

Pitch Black wrote: FEEDBACK!!!!
(Those Jamaicans were on to something)

YES!!!

For true real-time Dub mixing you can't beat Sends & Returns stylee. Dub it up blacker than dread.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Sat May 02, 2015 1:30 pm

If you are doing return/send feedback make sure any limiters or compressors are set to look-ahead = 0ms, otherwise any delays will drift out of sync because looped returns can't calculate latency to put it all back in sync.

TomViolenz · Post by **TomViolenz** » Sat May 02, 2015 2:09 pm

Pitch Black wrote:Q: what can return channels be used for?

A: FEEDBACK!!!!

Enable the sends to themselves and create an effects feedback matrix where, say, a delay feeds into a reverb which then feeds into a beat repeat which then feeds an auto filter which then feeds into... yup... Whatever you first had. Bung a few limiters in strategic places so that things don't go thermonuclear too quickly, sit back and enjoy the results!!

(Those Jamaicans were on to something)

An awesome idea I thought about before, would be to make this a matrix of 8x8 (though I would probably disable the sends return to itself) and then assign a grid after-touch controller like the Launchpad Pro to these send/send volumes and then play this matrix with pressure

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Sat May 02, 2015 3:23 pm

Back when we were all talking about no-input mixer feedback music I made a set something like that.

I made good routings with the sends and stored the snapshots in Clyphx, so I could play them.
A lot of the tunings of the, uh, screaming noises, are dependant on buffer size.

Now I think about it, that's what I'm going to do today. Ambient Screaming.

login · Post by **login** » Sat May 02, 2015 3:27 pm

Paralell compression.

chrissobo13 · Post by **chrissobo13** » Sat May 02, 2015 10:38 pm

Angstrom wrote:If you are doing return/send feedback make sure any limiters or compressors are set to look-ahead = 0ms, otherwise any delays will drift out of sync because looped returns can't calculate latency to put it all back in sync.

Wow, I may be experiencing this issue right now. Good to know!

Citizen · Post by **Citizen** » Tue May 12, 2015 3:44 am

login wrote:Paralell compression.

Really?

If a compressor was sitting in a return channel, would it not simply just add to the signal? (Ie, the sound of the dry channel PLUS the sound of the signal in the compressor return)

What is the technique/application for this?

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Tue May 12, 2015 12:47 pm

Citizen wrote:
login wrote:Paralell compression.
Really?

If a compressor was sitting in a return channel, would it not simply just add to the signal? (Ie, the sound of the dry channel PLUS the sound of the signal in the compressor return)

What is the technique/application for this?

Parallel compression, also known as New York compression, is a dynamic range compression technique used in sound recording and mixing. Parallel compression, a form of upward compression, is achieved by mixing an unprocessed 'dry', or lightly compressed signal with a heavily compressed version of the same signal.

if you imagine a super-compressed drum buss signal, totally squashed so that it has no transient at all, it will have a very sustaining, present but undynamic sound, so while sounding "in your face" it's not the best for punchy drums.
Now think of the un-compressed signal - it's all transients and no real sustain (when compared to the compressed signal). By combining the two you can get the benefits of both, an attacky drum sound which also sustains.

Having said all that - Ableton's Compressor and Glue BOTH have wet/dry controls these days, so you don't really need a send& return for this NY compression effect.

Verb, Delay, etc – what else can Return channels be used 4?

Verb, Delay, etc – what else can Return channels be used 4?

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Re: Verb, Delay, etc – what else can Return channels be used 4?

Re: Verb, Delay, etc – what else can Return channels be used 4?

Re: Verb, Delay, etc – what else can Return channels be used 4?

Re: Verb, Delay, etc – what else can Return channels be used 4?

Re: Verb, Delay, etc – what else can Return channels be used 4?

Re: Verb, Delay, etc – what else can Return channels be used 4?

Re: Verb, Delay, etc – what else can Return channels be used 4?

Re: Verb, Delay, etc – what else can Return channels be used 4?

Re: Verb, Delay, etc – what else can Return channels be used 4?

Re: Verb, Delay, etc – what else can Return channels be used 4?