Live 9 and audio dropouts with USB soundcard

[sevenark]

I bought two MOTU MK3 UltraLites as part of a live audio setup a few months ago. I've been experiencing the same audio glitch on both of them - the audio will randomly cut out for between 0.5 and 1 seconds and skip. This will happen at least once or twice in a 60 minute liveset, and it occurs on both interfaces. I'm running Ableton Live 9.6.2 64-bit, with the MOTUs connected via USB.

This is what I've done to troubleshoot:

1 - updated firmware on both MOTUs

2- tried 3 different Macbook Pros, running El Capitan, Yosemite and Snow Leopard.

3 - updated all Macbook Pros to the latest version of El Capitan

4 - changed all USB cables

This is infuriating - anybody have any ideas as to what's going on here? I've read some similar problems online about the issue being with OSX and the CoreAudio drivers, but there must be some way to resolve this? The system is not usable at the moment as a dedicated live rig.

Any ideas?

[AAdel]

I don't have MOTU MK3 UltraLites but used this version in Yosemite and El Capitan with TC and Steinberg sound interfaces with no problem.
So check two things:
1- Check if your CPU is not powerful enough and can't process big projects.
2- Increase your sound card buffer to more than 256 samples.
Hope that works for you.

[Stromkraft]

I've read some similar problems online about the issue being with OSX and the CoreAudio drivers

I've never heard such issues should extend to Snow Leopard. One reason I once downgraded from 10.7 that I just had bought to 10.6 were massive issues with sound, not only in Live. Then later I stayed in 10.9 until 10.11 arrived.

there must be some way to resolve this? The system is not usable at the moment as a dedicated live rig.

Get in touch with support now!

[fishmonkey]

what is your setup? are the two Ultralites connected to the same computer, or is it two independent computers? if it's two computers, are they linked in some way?

also search the Console logs for audio errors.

[sevenark]

It's two completely independent systems - two computers, two MOTU soundcards running through a Radial SW8 switcher. It's a redundant system - if system A crashes I can use the Radial switcher to switch over to system B with no real interruption or loss in audio signal.

I use an Akai MPD226 to link the two systems via MIDI - I just use it for transport controls and jumping to different locator positions on the timeline, nothing more. MIDI link is via the MOTU soundcards.

I'm considering going back to Snow Leopard, but I'm fairly sure the one Macbook I've used was on Snow Leopard and still experienced problems. The other option is to upgrade immediately to Sierra when it's released on the 20th, but obviously that's risky given the often buggy nature of new OS's.

El Capitan definitely does seem to have audio issues though; see here:

http://cdm.link/2016/09/real-apple-news ... xed-month/

and this long thread on Native Instrument's forum:

https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... se.262889/

[fishmonkey]

there are so many things that can cause audio problems, and the number of things increases with every new operating system version as more and more bells and whistles are added. because of this, thorough preparation of live show machines is really necessary if you want to avoid glitches.

my show machines are mostly used in theatres where they are connected to the house sound system for days on end and i have rarely experienced any audio issues, and this has been the case with OS X 10.8, 10.9, 10.10, and 10.11.

at minimum i highly recommend you follow this guide:

https://figure53.com/docs/qlab/v3/gener ... -your-mac/

also, have you contacted MOTU support?

there are also a lot of other software bugs that could being causing your issue, e.g. memory leaks that cause all the RAM on your machines to be consumed. i use iStat Menus to keep an eye on how the resources on my machines are going:

https://bjango.com/mac/istatmenus/

[Stromkraft]

El Capitan definitely does seem to have audio issues though; see here:

http://cdm.link/2016/09/real-apple-news ... xed-month/

While that is likely true OS X 10.11 is IMO the most stable among 10.7 (shite), 10.8, 10.9 and 10.10. Whether you actually do have issues would seem to depend on the combination of Audio application or plug-ins in use, the audio interface, driver version as well as OS version and sometimes the machine.

It's impossible for me to know if 10.11 would be better for most people. All one can do is try. You have and you still have issues.

While I certainly hope the audio bug that I've been asking Native Instruments as well as Ableton about since 2012 (none have acknowledged it) will be fixed in 10.12, the usual compatibility check and update cycle is likely to be needed.

[mattoutlaw]

sevenark - did you find a solution? I know this thread is a year old, but I'm having the EXACT problem you're having.

Two macs (Mtn Lion and El Cap), Live 9.6.2, two MK3 hybrids via usb, SW8 switcher. I will go 4-5 shows with no problems, then dropouts and skipping. We switch the SW8 manually, so at least that has bailed us out, if switched quickly. But my gig is kinda on the line here.

I'm also using Midi over network, out to a media server for video. So I'm currently chasing that down to see if it's putting strain on the cpu. So far, nothing.

PLEASE let me know if you found a fix. I will try using 10.7.3 this weekend. But I'd really love to know if you found the problem. Thanks very much.

[miyaru]

Have you searched the MOTU forum? They use to have a hugh problem with their interfaces, and this was years ago, but the same: pops and clicks and dropouts.

[fishmonkey]

sevenark - did you find a solution? I know this thread is a year old, but I'm having the EXACT problem you're having.

Two macs (Mtn Lion and El Cap), Live 9.6.2, two MK3 hybrids via usb, SW8 switcher. I will go 4-5 shows with no problems, then dropouts and skipping. We switch the SW8 manually, so at least that has bailed us out, if switched quickly. But my gig is kinda on the line here.

I'm also using Midi over network, out to a media server for video. So I'm currently chasing that down to see if it's putting strain on the cpu. So far, nothing.

PLEASE let me know if you found a fix. I will try using 10.7.3 this weekend. But I'd really love to know if you found the problem. Thanks very much.

i would try upgrading your software, rather than downgrading systems...

[mattoutlaw]

i would try upgrading your software, rather than downgrading systems...[/quote]


Sorry - I meant using Live 9.7.3

[mattoutlaw]

I've been going back thru my calendar to try to remember what changes were made, etc, around the time it appeared. The problem definitely appeared when I started using 9.6.2. Since the bug fixes don't mention this problem, I still want to track it down, but I will try 9.7.3 this weekend.

For clarification, it first appeared when I was using one Mac with Live, networked to a Mac running Resolume receiving midi via hardwired network session. That night, the tracks would literally skip like a record, somewhere between a half a beat and a beat, with no audible dropout. It did this in the middle of about 5 songs in a row, and we finally just dumped the rig and finished the show without tracks (nor video). Needless to say, the band was not pleased.

It was after this show that we dropped some serious cash for a second Live macbook pro and a redundant system. But the problem is still occurring intermittently, and by that I mean about once every 4-5 shows. Our rig will be setup all day sometimes, and our shows are 90mins or more, so it's crazy that it's so seldom. But when it appears, it will only go away with reboots and power cycling the interface, etc. -- sometimes multiple times before it corrects itself.

There are no indicators in the upper right of the Ableton GUI. No CPU spikes, no disk overload, midi in/out activity when the skips occur. Activity Monitor shows no spikes. I don't use iStats or any other monitors currently, as it wreaks havoc on Resolume.

I currently feel that it MIGHT be related to my network midi setup and Link or the underlying Link architecture. I don't use Link, and it has never been enabled. But perhaps there's something going on between the systems, with a feedback loop or something that is causing a CPU spike that is too brief to show up. I used Ableton 9.5 with this midi network output for at least a year without issues.

I appreciate any help you guys can give. I'm not creating a new thread just yet, as sevenark's issue was identical to mine.

[jpga]

I have the same problem.
El capitan, Motu828mkll, Ableton.
Hate it.

[[jur]]

I've also experienced this issue for a long time.
I'm still not 100% sure but it really seems to happen only when I have Deezer open in Safari.

[mattoutlaw]

Bumping this in hopes of finding others that have experienced this. Few have mentioned it, and with no clear solution.
Audio dropout and “skips” on three different Macs, OS versions, and Live versions. We went 20+ shows with no issues, then tonight it did it twice. Nothing on Activity Monitor out of the ordinary, and Ableton’s monitors didn’t peak or show any in/out activity.

Problem arose with OSX 10.8.5 Mtn Lion and Ableton 9.6.2. Currently on a newer Mac on OSX 10.11.6 El Capitan and Live 9.7.3. I’ll try 9.7.4 tomorrow.

The only common hardware factor in all situations is the Motu Ultralites (Hybrid MK3) via USB. I’m thinking they are the issue. They’re up to date on firmware.
The only other common factor is the Network Midi Session, which is only set to output. I’ve considered that perhaps it’s causing a problem in these post-Link versions.

I may have to start from scratch and build a new project, in case the project itself has been corrupted etc. But having gone thru so many shows, reboots, and Collect All and Saves with no issues, it seems that it isn’t the project.
Also, if I rebuild the project, I may just go back to 9.5 or even 9.2, since I use none of the newer features (ie - Link).

Sorry for the long post. Anyone have any ideas?