Mixing is a pain in the ass (I’ll explain why)

[officialjdpayne]

So I’ve been learning new techniques as far as mixing goes. My buddy and I make our own instrumentals and mix our own vocals, and he’s showed me everything he knows. However, when it comes to mixing our vocals, it tends to be redundant, and for some reason I can’t figure out, damn near impossible for me. My issue is a tad difficult to explain, so please bear with me.
Say I start a song with a hook. Great. I go from beginning to end when mixing so that’s what I’ll start with. I balance out my peaks on my vocals and slightly lower the instrumental pieces where necessary for extra assistance until I get it no higher than -3 on the master track. Wonderful. Since it’s a hook, I’ll duplicate those volume levels for however many hooks I have. Then I go about mixing the verse the same way yadda yadda yadda... and then I usually play the track from the beginning to double check the master track.
I’ll let it play all the way until the next verse, since I already mixed the hook and shouldn’t need to worry about it. Everything about the hook’s volume levels on all tracks are identical. So I don’t understand why for the love of god I can have my hook peaking at -3.12 the first time, and without me touching anything, the same hook peaks at -2.2 the second time (well into the hook too, towards the end, so it’s not leakage from the verse or anything). If I mess with any volume levels for any tracks further, it’ll start to sound a little off. I had it perfect the first time.
Basically, if anyone has a reason why this is happening and how to fix it, I’d love to hear it.
Secondarily, if anyone has a shortcut for mixing vocals and instrumental pieces rather than going through and lowering each individual peak to keep everything at a consistent dB level, please teach me your ways. This is the most infuriating part of making music for me and it’s frustrated me to the point where I’ve been putting off mixing an entire album I’ve recorded just to avoid the frustration.

[MPrinsen]

Do you only use (recorded) audio samples? Any fx plugins on top?

Fx plugins, but especially synth plugins may sound different every time, as they often simulate analog circuitry.

This might be what’s causing different levels.

[officialjdpayne]

Do you only use (recorded) audio samples? Any fx plugins on top?

Fx plugins, but especially synth plugins may sound different every time, as they often simulate analog circuitry.

This might be what’s causing different levels.

No, only the vocals are recorded. I typically have a background sample, and various drum racks with MIDI tracks that I manually insert (don’t have a keyboard). But each sound I put in the drum rack is from a sample pack, typically Cymatics.

[officialjdpayne]

Do you only use (recorded) audio samples? Any fx plugins on top?

Fx plugins, but especially synth plugins may sound different every time, as they often simulate analog circuitry.

This might be what’s causing different levels.

I also have compressors for my two return tracks, both slightly different that I adjust each drum rack for, and I have EQ, compressors, and minimal fx on my recorded vocals

[yur2die4]

Do you use Complex or Complex Pro warp algorithms? Those can affect the result of audio clips in a number of ways.

[jlgrimes]

So I’ve been learning new techniques as far as mixing goes. My buddy and I make our own instrumentals and mix our own vocals, and he’s showed me everything he knows. However, when it comes to mixing our vocals, it tends to be redundant, and for some reason I can’t figure out, damn near impossible for me. My issue is a tad difficult to explain, so please bear with me.
Say I start a song with a hook. Great. I go from beginning to end when mixing so that’s what I’ll start with. I balance out my peaks on my vocals and slightly lower the instrumental pieces where necessary for extra assistance until I get it no higher than -3 on the master track. Wonderful. Since it’s a hook, I’ll duplicate those volume levels for however many hooks I have. Then I go about mixing the verse the same way yadda yadda yadda... and then I usually play the track from the beginning to double check the master track.
I’ll let it play all the way until the next verse, since I already mixed the hook and shouldn’t need to worry about it. Everything about the hook’s volume levels on all tracks are identical. So I don’t understand why for the love of god I can have my hook peaking at -3.12 the first time, and without me touching anything, the same hook peaks at -2.2 the second time (well into the hook too, towards the end, so it’s not leakage from the verse or anything). If I mess with any volume levels for any tracks further, it’ll start to sound a little off. I had it perfect the first time.
Basically, if anyone has a reason why this is happening and how to fix it, I’d love to hear it.
Secondarily, if anyone has a shortcut for mixing vocals and instrumental pieces rather than going through and lowering each individual peak to keep everything at a consistent dB level, please teach me your ways. This is the most infuriating part of making music for me and it’s frustrated me to the point where I’ve been putting off mixing an entire album I’ve recorded just to avoid the frustration.

A compressor can help ease the complexity of leveling vocals.

Many folks dont like the sound of compression but for certain genres it's almost necessary (unless you have the patience of a monk).

I think a big issue people have with compressors is many will try to use only one to level the vocal. This will often make the vocal sound unnatural as with a highly dynamic vocal track will overwork the compressor usually.

Two compressors in series can create a more natural sound.

One hard/fast compressor for catching fast stray peaks, and one softer/slower one for overall general leveling if done right can create a more natural sounding but upfront vocal.

And maybe after that vocal automation but usually if done right, the vocal level automation should be less tedious process as most words should be fairly upfront.

The idea is to not do a whole lot of gain reduction on either compressor (if you want a more natural sound) and you can tweak each compressor to dial in the right amount. Using this principle, you can even add a third compressor for color/tone if you want.


That said if you are doing film or something less pop and more light jazz, classical, or folk, you level automation might be more appropriate as the vocal has less loud tracks to compete with but even then maybe one light compressor can still help.

[officialjdpayne]

Do you use Complex or Complex Pro warp algorithms? Those can affect the result of audio clips in a number of ways.

Imma keep it real with you chief, I’m still relatively new to mixing of a higher caliber, and I have no clue what those are

[officialjdpayne]

So I’ve been learning new techniques as far as mixing goes. My buddy and I make our own instrumentals and mix our own vocals, and he’s showed me everything he knows. However, when it comes to mixing our vocals, it tends to be redundant, and for some reason I can’t figure out, damn near impossible for me. My issue is a tad difficult to explain, so please bear with me.
Say I start a song with a hook. Great. I go from beginning to end when mixing so that’s what I’ll start with. I balance out my peaks on my vocals and slightly lower the instrumental pieces where necessary for extra assistance until I get it no higher than -3 on the master track. Wonderful. Since it’s a hook, I’ll duplicate those volume levels for however many hooks I have. Then I go about mixing the verse the same way yadda yadda yadda... and then I usually play the track from the beginning to double check the master track.
I’ll let it play all the way until the next verse, since I already mixed the hook and shouldn’t need to worry about it. Everything about the hook’s volume levels on all tracks are identical. So I don’t understand why for the love of god I can have my hook peaking at -3.12 the first time, and without me touching anything, the same hook peaks at -2.2 the second time (well into the hook too, towards the end, so it’s not leakage from the verse or anything). If I mess with any volume levels for any tracks further, it’ll start to sound a little off. I had it perfect the first time.
Basically, if anyone has a reason why this is happening and how to fix it, I’d love to hear it.
Secondarily, if anyone has a shortcut for mixing vocals and instrumental pieces rather than going through and lowering each individual peak to keep everything at a consistent dB level, please teach me your ways. This is the most infuriating part of making music for me and it’s frustrated me to the point where I’ve been putting off mixing an entire album I’ve recorded just to avoid the frustration.

A compressor can help ease the complexity of leveling vocals.

Many folks dont like the sound of compression but for certain genres it's almost necessary (unless you have the patience of a monk).

I think a big issue people have with compressors is many will try to use only one to level the vocal. This will often make the vocal sound unnatural as with a highly dynamic vocal track will overwork the compressor usually.

Two compressors in series can create a more natural sound.

One hard/fast compressor for catching fast stray peaks, and one softer/slower one for overall general leveling if done right can create a more natural sounding but upfront vocal.

And maybe after that vocal automation but usually if done right, the vocal level automation should be less tedious process as most words should be fairly upfront.

The idea is to not do a whole lot of gain reduction on either compressor (if you want a more natural sound) and you can tweak each compressor to dial in the right amount. Using this principle, you can even add a third compressor for color/tone if you want.


That said if you are doing film or something less pop and more light jazz, classical, or folk, you level automation might be more appropriate as the vocal has less loud tracks to compete with but even then maybe one light compressor can still help.

So do you think I should add a second compressor to my vocal tracks? I’ve got one on each layer now with the makeup on

[jlgrimes]

So I’ve been learning new techniques as far as mixing goes. My buddy and I make our own instrumentals and mix our own vocals, and he’s showed me everything he knows. However, when it comes to mixing our vocals, it tends to be redundant, and for some reason I can’t figure out, damn near impossible for me. My issue is a tad difficult to explain, so please bear with me.
Say I start a song with a hook. Great. I go from beginning to end when mixing so that’s what I’ll start with. I balance out my peaks on my vocals and slightly lower the instrumental pieces where necessary for extra assistance until I get it no higher than -3 on the master track. Wonderful. Since it’s a hook, I’ll duplicate those volume levels for however many hooks I have. Then I go about mixing the verse the same way yadda yadda yadda... and then I usually play the track from the beginning to double check the master track.
I’ll let it play all the way until the next verse, since I already mixed the hook and shouldn’t need to worry about it. Everything about the hook’s volume levels on all tracks are identical. So I don’t understand why for the love of god I can have my hook peaking at -3.12 the first time, and without me touching anything, the same hook peaks at -2.2 the second time (well into the hook too, towards the end, so it’s not leakage from the verse or anything). If I mess with any volume levels for any tracks further, it’ll start to sound a little off. I had it perfect the first time.
Basically, if anyone has a reason why this is happening and how to fix it, I’d love to hear it.
Secondarily, if anyone has a shortcut for mixing vocals and instrumental pieces rather than going through and lowering each individual peak to keep everything at a consistent dB level, please teach me your ways. This is the most infuriating part of making music for me and it’s frustrated me to the point where I’ve been putting off mixing an entire album I’ve recorded just to avoid the frustration.

A compressor can help ease the complexity of leveling vocals.

Many folks dont like the sound of compression but for certain genres it's almost necessary (unless you have the patience of a monk).

I think a big issue people have with compressors is many will try to use only one to level the vocal. This will often make the vocal sound unnatural as with a highly dynamic vocal track will overwork the compressor usually.

Two compressors in series can create a more natural sound.

One hard/fast compressor for catching fast stray peaks, and one softer/slower one for overall general leveling if done right can create a more natural sounding but upfront vocal.

And maybe after that vocal automation but usually if done right, the vocal level automation should be less tedious process as most words should be fairly upfront.

The idea is to not do a whole lot of gain reduction on either compressor (if you want a more natural sound) and you can tweak each compressor to dial in the right amount. Using this principle, you can even add a third compressor for color/tone if you want.


That said if you are doing film or something less pop and more light jazz, classical, or folk, you level automation might be more appropriate as the vocal has less loud tracks to compete with but even then maybe one light compressor can still help.

So do you think I should add a second compressor to my vocal tracks? I’ve got one on each layer now with the makeup on

Yes. Especially if vocals are recorded with no compression, and vocalist isnt really controlling their dynamics, and your genre is more a more modern style (pop, rock, rap, R&B, EDM etc).

Certain situations you might not need it especially if getting vocals that were processed on the way in but most cases I usually need at least two compressors, sometimes three. I used to use one compressor and always wondered why my vocals struggled to sound on top of the beat and when they were on top of the beat, the compression would either sound too harsh and/or too muddy.

Multiple compressors usually sound more natural. Some producers even just find a setting they like on one compressor and duplicate the same setting and lighten up on gain reductions from there (which is a bit easier to do actually, than using two compressors with very different settings doing different things). This method sometimes can sound even phatter than using two different setting compressors, but the different setting usually is more natural and gives you more control of vocal as you can tweak the stray peak compressor and dial in on the general leveling compressor to taste.

[officialjdpayne]

A compressor can help ease the complexity of leveling vocals.

Many folks dont like the sound of compression but for certain genres it's almost necessary (unless you have the patience of a monk).

I think a big issue people have with compressors is many will try to use only one to level the vocal. This will often make the vocal sound unnatural as with a highly dynamic vocal track will overwork the compressor usually.

Two compressors in series can create a more natural sound.

One hard/fast compressor for catching fast stray peaks, and one softer/slower one for overall general leveling if done right can create a more natural sounding but upfront vocal.

And maybe after that vocal automation but usually if done right, the vocal level automation should be less tedious process as most words should be fairly upfront.

The idea is to not do a whole lot of gain reduction on either compressor (if you want a more natural sound) and you can tweak each compressor to dial in the right amount. Using this principle, you can even add a third compressor for color/tone if you want.


That said if you are doing film or something less pop and more light jazz, classical, or folk, you level automation might be more appropriate as the vocal has less loud tracks to compete with but even then maybe one light compressor can still help.

So do you think I should add a second compressor to my vocal tracks? I’ve got one on each layer now with the makeup on

Yes. Especially if vocals are recorded with no compression, and vocalist isnt really controlling their dynamics, and your genre is more a more modern style (pop, rock, rap, R&B, EDM etc).

Certain situations you might not need it especially if getting vocals that were processed on the way in but most cases I usually need at least two compressors, sometimes three. I used to use one compressor and always wondered why my vocals struggled to sound on top of the beat and when they were on top of the beat, the compression would either sound too harsh and/or too muddy.

Multiple compressors usually sound more natural. Some producers even just find a setting they like on one compressor and duplicate the same setting and lighten up on gain reductions from there (which is a bit easier to do actually, than using two compressors with very different settings doing different things). This method sometimes can sound even phatter than using two different setting compressors, but the different setting usually is more natural and gives you more control of vocal as you can tweak the stray peak compressor and dial in on the general leveling compressor to taste.

So what would you recommend having the settings at for each compressor? As of now on my one I’ve got the ratio at 2.00:1, attack at 2 ms, release at 3 s, makeup is on, and dry/wet at 100%

[yur2die4]

Do you use Complex or Complex Pro warp algorithms? Those can affect the result of audio clips in a number of ways.

Imma keep it real with you chief, I’m still relatively new to mixing of a higher caliber, and I have no clue what those are

When you use audio material within Ableton Live, day one you ought to come to terms what warping is and how it affects your sound. Also know that the Complex modes can color and mess with the amplitude of your output.

You should at the very least be able to confirm whether your clips are or are not warped. If they are Not warped then you can rule that out as part of the problem. If they are warped, it’s a possible factor. If you don’t know and assume they are not warp because you don’t recall turning warp on, that is not a good enough understanding. You should always know whether your audio clips are warped, how to check, and know which type of warping is being implemented.

[officialjdpayne]

Do you use Complex or Complex Pro warp algorithms? Those can affect the result of audio clips in a number of ways.

Imma keep it real with you chief, I’m still relatively new to mixing of a higher caliber, and I have no clue what those are

When you use audio material within Ableton Live, day one you ought to come to terms what warping is and how it affects your sound. Also know that the Complex modes can color and mess with the amplitude of your output.

You should at the very least be able to confirm whether your clips are or are not warped. If they are Not warped then you can rule that out as part of the problem. If they are warped, it’s a possible factor. If you don’t know and assume they are not warp because you don’t recall turning warp on, that is not a good enough understanding. You should always know whether your audio clips are warped, how to check, and know which type of warping is being implemented.

What kind of warping do you mean? I haven’t turned any sort of warping on save for the EQ Intro provides and a limiter and compressor, and an added chorus effect on my hook track.

[yur2die4]

Imma keep it real with you chief, I’m still relatively new to mixing of a higher caliber, and I have no clue what those are

When you use audio material within Ableton Live, day one you ought to come to terms what warping is and how it affects your sound. Also know that the Complex modes can color and mess with the amplitude of your output.

You should at the very least be able to confirm whether your clips are or are not warped. If they are Not warped then you can rule that out as part of the problem. If they are warped, it’s a possible factor. If you don’t know and assume they are not warp because you don’t recall turning warp on, that is not a good enough understanding. You should always know whether your audio clips are warped, how to check, and know which type of warping is being implemented.

What kind of warping do you mean? I haven’t turned any sort of warping on save for the EQ Intro provides and a limiter and compressor, and an added chorus effect on my hook track.

It is a lot to explain. So I’ll point you to basic explanation of it.

https://www.ableton.com/en/manual/audio ... ng-samples

Basically, if this button is on in clip properties (double click on a clip), then it is warped. In Live preferences, auto warping long samples is on by default if I recall. So you might not be aware if it is on or not. Recorded audio is probably also automatically warped.

If the button is Off, then there are no warp related issues affecting your levels. If it is On, then see if it is using ‘Complex’ or ‘Complex Pro’. If it is, that Might be a source of frustration for inconsistencies.

[U.G.U.R]

Hi friends;

I tried to make techno music for two years.

I wanna ask something that I confused. In the mixing stage; ı used VU meter a lot. How many VU meter values should I see in VU meter for kick?? Now a days, I kept my kick -3 to -5 in VU meter, but ı sounds very quiet for me. When ı added the bass, ı allow 3 VU meter value up ( kick and bass sum: -2 VU meter). Because of this quiet kick, ı raised my VU meter volüme( 0 VU). Is that ok with you guys?? or you have suggestions for this??

I tried to keep my kick drum -12-18 db (peak level not VU). What dou you think about that?? Also, when I add my bass,, kick and bass were -12 to -15. If I dont do this, kick and bass are very quiet to me.

For compatible of kick and bass, what do you do in the mix stage for peak, RMS levels and VU meter (ıf you use)?

In mixing stage, LUFS levels that ı used- 22 to -20 LUFS, for mastering stage -14 and -15. what dou you think about this values?? or any suggestion??

Thank you so much.

[jlgrimes]

Hi friends;

I tried to make techno music for two years.

I wanna ask something that I confused. In the mixing stage; ı used VU meter a lot. How many VU meter values should I see in VU meter for kick?? Now a days, I kept my kick -3 to -5 in VU meter, but ı sounds very quiet for me. When ı added the bass, ı allow 3 VU meter value up ( kick and bass sum: -2 VU meter). Because of this quiet kick, ı raised my VU meter volüme( 0 VU). Is that ok with you guys?? or you have suggestions for this??

I tried to keep my kick drum -12-18 db (peak level not VU). What dou you think about that?? Also, when I add my bass,, kick and bass were -12 to -15. If I dont do this, kick and bass are very quiet to me.

For compatible of kick and bass, what do you do in the mix stage for peak, RMS levels and VU meter (ıf you use)?

In mixing stage, LUFS levels that ı used- 22 to -20 LUFS, for mastering stage -14 and -15. what dou you think about this values?? or any suggestion??

Thank you so much.

I hardly ever use level meters when mixing (or at least to that level of detail).

For initial gain staging of recorded or bounced tracks, I generally like to have all of my tracks peaking somewhere between -20 to -10 dbfs. This mainly helps in keeping your master bus from overloading and kind of helps with gain staging analog emulation plugins. I do generally prefer to bounce kick drums on the louder -10 dbfs end of the scale and things like hats on the lower -20dbfs end of the scale (and sometimes even lower).

As for setting levels I find it is best to listen to a reference track and use that as a guide (vs going by numbers).