White GUI screen on many VST3 plugins, as well as other bizarre GUI bugs

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Refl3xes
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Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:20 am

White GUI screen on many VST3 plugins, as well as other bizarre GUI bugs

Post by Refl3xes » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:22 am

I want to say I've already contacted Ableton support about this and they suggested a few things, but they haven't replied in almost a week and I'm pretty desperate for a solution. I've tried everything I can find online to fix this and so far I've had zero luck. There is one forum post here related to this issue but it was never resolved.

I am having a bizarre problem where several VST3 plugins are not loading their GUI's properly, specifically in large project files, but it's hard to reproduce reliably. I try to open the plugin and I just get a blank white screen. Nothing I can find within Ableton at that point will get the GUI to load properly, and I have proceed with working on the project by just manipulating the sliders in the plugin options instead. Reloading the project won't fix it - it's sort of permanently stuck with the GUI bugs.

I also have some GUI issues with other plugins where certain sub menus and options won't load or work properly. I've gotten around this by using VST2 versions, but I don't have that option in every case.

I am on Windows 10, with a 9900k CPU and 2080Super GPU. Full Ableton Live 11 Suite. No audio interface (yet) but I'm using ASIO4ALL instead, which I've heard can be buggy and problematic but I'm not sure if it might cause these issues. I never had these problems for the past year, until just about 3 weeks ago. If getting an interface might somehow help then I will.

I've tried so many things to fix this that it's sort of hard to list. I've updated (and downgraded, to test) my GPU drivers, I've tried booting Ableton with iGPU graphics instead of my GPU, no luck. Ran as administrator, disabled/enabled fullscreen optimizations. I've messed with scaling options, NVIDIA options, I tried to find a way to manually update my OpenGL (thinking the plugins that had issues might use OpenGL) but I couldn't figure that out. I've tried disabling my second "monitor"/capture card, and even unplugging it, but I still have problems.

The ONLY thing that *temporarily* fixed my problem was disabling the VST3 system folder in Ableton's options. The plugins began behaving normally BUT all my other plugins in that project were inaccessible, so I tried to copy everything from my system folder into my custom folder, and then the problem came right back. I looked through the plugins that I copied over, however, and none of them were copies of the problematic ones. I figured any copies in different locations might cause problems, but I didn't find any. I'm not sure what the issue was there exactly, but it seems like it could be important.

Off the top of my head, list of plugins that have given me issues (All VST3)
-Schlap (no GUI loading)
-Nani (no GUI loading)
-Spaced Out (was also causing crashes, could be unrelated)
-Portal (very weird GUI bugs making it unusable)
-Wider by Infected Mushroom (minor GUI bugs, still usable)
-Valhalla VintageVerb (only gave me GUI bugs one time, but it was extreme)
-SubLab (switching to VST2 fixes my problems, for now)

There are definitely more but I'd have to look into it.

As I've said, I contacted Ableton support and they haven't replied in almost a week so I really am getting anxious. Any ideas for fixing this issue would be incredibly appreciated.

- Refl3xes

tomasmark79
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:36 pm

Re: White GUI screen on many VST3 plugins, as well as other bizarre GUI bugs

Post by tomasmark79 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:08 pm

In this case, I don't think it would be Ableton's problem, but they say never say anything.

I personally have another problem with VST3. And all of them. Deliberately try to reproduce according to the following video.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C7_aXo ... sp=sharing

topic here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=243276


Otherwise, I only had the problem with the white window you described at the beginning of the release of Ableton 11 and plugins from AIR.

It helped me completely clean the user folder and start anew. It hasn't happened to me once since.
CPU AMD 9 3900X / CHIPSET AMD X570 / 32GB RAM 3200Mhz / GPU Nitro+ SE RX6900XT16GB / SSD 3TB, HDD 4TB / WIN10 20H2
https://music.debianium.com

Mark Williams
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Location: Kent

Re: White GUI screen on many VST3 plugins, as well as other bizarre GUI bugs

Post by Mark Williams » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:32 pm

tomasmark79 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:08 pm
In this case, I don't think it would be Ableton's problem, but they say never say anything.


Otherwise, I only had the problem with the white window you described at the beginning of the release of Ableton 11 and plugins from AIR.

It helped me completely clean the user folder and start anew. It hasn't happened to me once since.
AIR plugins always had this issue not just within Ableton but within NI KK and Maschine.
Live 11, M1 Mac Mini, Push 2, KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 & ADA8200, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind12D, Eventide H9, Line 6 M5, Komplete 12, Hydrasynth, Cobalt 8M, MicroFreak, TR-8S

Refl3xes
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:20 am

Re: White GUI screen on many VST3 plugins, as well as other bizarre GUI bugs

Post by Refl3xes » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:59 am

tomasmark79 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:08 pm
In this case, I don't think it would be Ableton's problem, but they say never say anything.

I personally have another problem with VST3. And all of them. Deliberately try to reproduce according to the following video.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C7_aXo ... sp=sharing

topic here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=243276


Otherwise, I only had the problem with the white window you described at the beginning of the release of Ableton 11 and plugins from AIR.

It helped me completely clean the user folder and start anew. It hasn't happened to me once since.
The main thing that has me thinking this might be an Ableton issue is that I'm having a variety of GUI bugs, with a good amount of plugins, some that I've had installed for a while and some new. It seems unlikely that I'd have different but related bugs on THAT many different VST3's at once after so many months and years of never seeing these issues, right?

I'll definitely give the plugin folder refresh a shot. I should just be able to copy over my needed plugins one at a time from my current VST folder to a new one, and then point Ableton to the new folder, correct? I'm slightly worried that some plugins might act strange after moving them around but I can always just point it back to the original folder if I have issues.

tomasmark79
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:36 pm

Re: White GUI screen on many VST3 plugins, as well as other bizarre GUI bugs

Post by tomasmark79 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:56 am

I didn't mean to move plugins, but to reset Ableton settings.

Next, I would definitely look at the graphics driver, setting it to default values. Because Ableton uses OpenGL and Plugins are rendered through Ableton.

I personally have dozens of plugins on a 4K monitor and I have no display problems.

Start in a clear meadow.
CPU AMD 9 3900X / CHIPSET AMD X570 / 32GB RAM 3200Mhz / GPU Nitro+ SE RX6900XT16GB / SSD 3TB, HDD 4TB / WIN10 20H2
https://music.debianium.com

Refl3xes
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:20 am

Re: White GUI screen on many VST3 plugins, as well as other bizarre GUI bugs

Post by Refl3xes » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:29 pm

I've already tried resetting Ableton settings as much as I can without entirely re-installing it, which I suppose I could try. I did try to reset my preferences by deleting the preference file and setting up my audio/buffer settings again, but that didn't help. I've tried updating my GPU driver, I've tried rolling it back to a driver that I knew was working, but no luck. I've tried a bunch of adjustments to NVIDIA settings and scaling options, as well as window performance options, and nothing has made a difference so far. I'm also hesitant to change too much because I game on this PC and I don't want to mess up any game performance.

Per Ableton support's suggestion, I got my iGPU working on my 9900k and I forced Ableton to run on integrated graphics without the GPU. No luck there. This would seem to suggest that the problem is not necessarily related to GPU drivers, since it was still present after switching away from the GPU to integrated graphics.

I'm still not really sure what to try next and Ableton support hasn't replied in over a week. Great support for an 800+ dollar program...

seershamusic
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:33 pm

Re: White GUI screen on many VST3 plugins, as well as other bizarre GUI bugs

Post by seershamusic » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:35 pm

I was having this issue specifically with XLN Addictive Keys. I went into the XLN Online Installer app and after updating the app and plug-in, it's working perfectly again. I'm on Big Sur 11.4 and Ableton 11.0.2. I hope this helps someone!

Wirebird
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Re: White GUI screen on many VST3 plugins, as well as other bizarre GUI bugs

Post by Wirebird » Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:18 pm

In my experience, white/blank plugin GUI's is memory related. For some reason your system is out of available allocated memory to be able to display the graphics. This is where I would troubleshoot.

Mark Williams
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Location: Kent

Re: White GUI screen on many VST3 plugins, as well as other bizarre GUI bugs

Post by Mark Williams » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:09 pm

Wirebird wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:18 pm
In my experience, white/blank plugin GUI's is memory related. For some reason your system is out of available allocated memory to be able to display the graphics. This is where I would troubleshoot.
Not really, its more than likely outdated plugins that need updating as others have already mentioned here. Air plugins the main culprit, which thankfully I do not use.
Live 11, M1 Mac Mini, Push 2, KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 & ADA8200, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind12D, Eventide H9, Line 6 M5, Komplete 12, Hydrasynth, Cobalt 8M, MicroFreak, TR-8S

Wirebird
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Location: Sweden

Re: White GUI screen on many VST3 plugins, as well as other bizarre GUI bugs

Post by Wirebird » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:40 pm

Mark Williams wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:09 pm
Wirebird wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:18 pm
In my experience, white/blank plugin GUI's is memory related. For some reason your system is out of available allocated memory to be able to display the graphics. This is where I would troubleshoot.
Not really, its more than likely outdated plugins that need updating as others have already mentioned here. Air plugins the main culprit, which thankfully I do not use.
That may well be, but lack of memory is still the most common cause for plugin GUI’s not being displayed. For what it’s worth, I’m not picking this out of a hat; I’m a former GUI designer. The graphics resources of the offending plugins may be too large for the currently available memory.

Mark Williams
Posts: 720
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Kent

Re: White GUI screen on many VST3 plugins, as well as other bizarre GUI bugs

Post by Mark Williams » Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:31 pm

Wirebird wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:40 pm

That may well be, but lack of memory is still the most common cause for plugin GUI’s not being displayed. For what it’s worth, I’m not picking this out of a hat; I’m a former GUI designer. The graphics resources of the offending plugins may be too large for the currently available memory.
Hardly lack of ram, just look at some of the posters systems, more than enough system & dedicated graphics ram to run gui's of some of these simple plugins. Poorly written outdated plugins and or graphics drivers
Live 11, M1 Mac Mini, Push 2, KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 & ADA8200, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind12D, Eventide H9, Line 6 M5, Komplete 12, Hydrasynth, Cobalt 8M, MicroFreak, TR-8S

Wirebird
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:08 am
Location: Sweden

Re: White GUI screen on many VST3 plugins, as well as other bizarre GUI bugs

Post by Wirebird » Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:59 pm

Mark Williams wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:31 pm
Wirebird wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:40 pm

That may well be, but lack of memory is still the most common cause for plugin GUI’s not being displayed. For what it’s worth, I’m not picking this out of a hat; I’m a former GUI designer. The graphics resources of the offending plugins may be too large for the currently available memory.
Hardly lack of ram, just look at some of the posters systems, more than enough system & dedicated graphics ram to run gui's of some of these simple plugins. Poorly written outdated plugins and or graphics drivers
You’re missing my point. I’m not suggesting the OP’s system doesn’t have enough memory, I’m simply stating that missing GUI’s, particularly under heavy load, is usually memory related. It can be matter of how the graphics in the offending plugins utilize memory, which like you say is in this case is likely a matter of poor coding, or it could be poorly optimized GUI graphics, demanding more memory than can be allocated at certain realtime events.

When troubleshooting, it’s important to narrow in on the main cause, which is why I posted about it likely being memory related. After that it’s a matter of exclusion. Does the system have enough memory? Yes. Can this be narrowed down to certain plugins? Yes. Is the GUI of the offending plugins visible under minimal system load/memory use? Etc.

Memory related problems can at times be difficult to troubleshoot. Worst case scenario memory modules can have ESD damage, resulting in erratic performance under stress. (I’m not suggesting this to be the cause, only to point out the difficulty). It can be related to graphics drivers too, like you suggest.

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