Any chance of getting the old browser categories back?

[benmuetsch]

Hi everyone,

really digging Live 12 and everything runs very well, but one thing that really annoys me as a capricorn is the new browser with the filters.
I can understand for people who use push that this may be more conveniant in searching sounds but me as a very organized guy I seem to find nothing anymore.
I really liked the whole left-handed category tree system from Live 11 where Audio Effects have been in categories as well as there were the style sub-categories for instruments. What also is kinda strange is that in this whole bunch of sounds, my own sounds and presets are somewhere inbetween with no selectable "user category" ?!.

Any chance to get the Live 11 browser style back, as an option maybe? That would be outstanding. I can't help myself and feel so unorganized right now.

[hoping2produce]

I also wish they would bring that back.

[benmuetsch]

Maybe at least an "user sounds" category because I can't find my own presets besides browing my user library.

As said, I can understand the intention of the "new browser", but somehow it's inconveniant and cluttered to me, at least on a 1920 x 1200px display.
Also it's more "sound browsing" than "device category browsing" or maybe for the random guys, but as a person who does mostly specific choices I really have the feel that I have to click or type a lot more.
I am not a guy who customizes his DAW a lot - aka making loads of custom collections and searches because it's hard to re-setup if somehow a computer migration fails or if I work on another setup.

For me, this is increasingly turning into a kind of MPC/Groovebox workflow, which is more aimed at beginners rather than a professional production environment unfortunately.

[overdrivenundercrunched]

Completely agree, this feels like such a backwards way of working. The only workaround I've found is to tag the default preset of the device rather than the device itself. If the device itself is tagged, all presets are added, and all presets -- including custom racks which have specifically been tagged in that category -- are shown alphabetically. The problem with that though is that if the default preset is updated, that new default isn't updated to the tagged preset -- I'd have to remove the tag from the current default and manually set it to the new default.

This change has really obliterated the usefulness of tags, and I've only just encountered it having updated to 12.1. I've had set up a filter for "MyName-Distortion". I've always used that name so that I can identify presets of my own, the same way that VEC3-clap-001.wav might identify a sample's origin. I've got things like Amp and Cabinet, Misstortion 2, FabFilter Saturn, Saturator, and Roar tagged under Distortion. Simple. I also have a rack that I've called MyName-Transitor Radio Filters" with the MyName-Distortion tag. The problem is that since it's a rack preset, and I've dared to tag some of Ableton's default devices under the "MyName-Distortion" tag, I have to scroll past...

• 1x12 Cab.adv
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  A Bit Warmer.adv
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  Alien Symphony.adv
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  Bass Roundup.adv
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  Chiptune Filter.adv
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  Colored Tremolo.adv
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  Crew Cut.adv
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  Digital Clip Center.adv
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  Drums Deep Bassliner.adv
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  Drums Moving Crusher.adv
  Drums Noisy Clarity.adv
  Drums Second Opinion.adv
  Drums Spectral Breaks.adv
  Dubplate.adv
  Dynamic Tube.adv
  E-Piano Dirt & Gnarl.adv
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  Glitch Feedback.adv
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  Glitch Rhythmic.adv
  Glitch Wild.adv
  Gritty Bass.adv
  Guitar Bright Tone.adv
  Guitar Dirt.adv
  Guitar Gnarly Fuzz.adv
  Guitar Mellow Crunch.adv
  Guitar Phased Delav.adv
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  Hard Color.adv
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  Keys Dirty Dub.adv
  Kick Me.adv
  Klirr.adv
  Little Drive.adv
  LiveCrusher.adv
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  Low Sample Rate.adv
  Lurching Drums.adv
  Made for 808s.adv
  Manic Smash.adv
  Marsh Mellows.adv
  Metalic.adv
  Mid Side Enhance.adv
  Mid-Range Phattener.adv
  Mids Distort.adv
  Mid Overdrive.adv
  Mix Crunch Bus adv
  Mix Dynamic EQ & MB Comp.adv
  Mix Fat Tape.adv
  Mix High End Sparkler.adv
  Mix Low End Supply.adv
  Mix Mid Range Detail.adv
  Mix Mid Side Enhance.adv
  Mix Punch Up.adv
  Mix Shine On.adv
  Mono Drums Squasher.adv
  Muffled Crunch in E.adv
  Multi Band Stutter.adv
  New Mirage.adv
  Noisy.adv
  Nonreal.adv
  Overdrive.adv
  Punch Bass in G.adv
  Punch Boom in A.adv
  Punchy Driven .adv
  Rage Clipper.adv
  Rectifier.adv
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  Reso Grind.adv
  Rhythm Funk.adv
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  Roar.adv
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  Synth Pad Fattener.adv
  Tape Saturation.adv
  Transient Shaping Enhance.adv
  Transient Shift Decay.adv
  Tube Trash.adv

...before I get to "MyName-Distortion" alphabetically, even though it is specifically tagged and I've filtered the browser to only that tag.

I'm fine with Ableton tagging of their existing presets and sounds within the default filters, but the current operation makes custom filters essentially useless, because they aren't custom anymore. I suppose in short, my question is: what good is a browser based around filters, if I cannot limit the results to the tags being filtered?

[benmuetsch]

After weeks I have to say - I simply hate the new browser.

[chymera]

If you're only looking for your own user made presets, then try using the Creator|User filter. Does that help?

[benmuetsch]

If you're only looking for your own user made presets, then try using the Creator|User filter. Does that help?

Works with some here, but e.g. Drum Rack and Sampler now show many more presets made from 3rd party companies like Samples from Mars.

All in all, you now need to click and declutter so much more the whole browser usage is just annoying af. Till Live 11 I mostly navigated the browser with the arrow keys (very fast) but now need the mouse for setting up filters and searches which may be conveniant for push users but not for more studio-oriented users.

[[bge]]

I'm fine with Ableton tagging of their existing presets and sounds within the default filters, but the current operation makes custom filters essentially useless, because they aren't custom anymore. I suppose in short, my question is: what good is a browser based around filters, if I cannot limit the results to the tags being filtered?

Thanks for the feedback and sorry for the inconvenience caused,.

We're already aware of the issues when tagging both devices and presets and there is a solution forthcoming in an upcoming beta.
In some cases you may need to re-create your saved labels if they mix both presets and devices.
Please keep an eye on the release notes, or if you're already a member of Centercode and using the beta, I'll make a post there when the changes are available.

[[bge]]

If you're only looking for your own user made presets, then try using the Creator|User filter. Does that help?

Works with some here, but e.g. Drum Rack and Sampler now show many more presets made from 3rd party companies like Samples from Mars.

All in all, you now need to click and declutter so much more the whole browser usage is just annoying af. Till Live 11 I mostly navigated the browser with the arrow keys (very fast) but now need the mouse for setting up filters and searches which may be conveniant for push users but not for more studio-oriented users.

To get a better picture of the issue, do you mean that you prefer how presets were organised in Live 11 where you unfolded a device in the browser and would see first the presets grouped into the sounds folders (Bass, Lead, Pad etc), and then you'd see a list of your user presets under that in a flat list?

[benmuetsch]

If you're only looking for your own user made presets, then try using the Creator|User filter. Does that help?

Works with some here, but e.g. Drum Rack and Sampler now show many more presets made from 3rd party companies like Samples from Mars.

All in all, you now need to click and declutter so much more the whole browser usage is just annoying af. Till Live 11 I mostly navigated the browser with the arrow keys (very fast) but now need the mouse for setting up filters and searches which may be conveniant for push users but not for more studio-oriented users.

To get a better picture of the issue, do you mean that you prefer how presets were organised in Live 11 where you unfolded a device in the browser and would see first the presets grouped into the sounds folders (Bass, Lead, Pad etc), and then you'd see a list of your user presets under that in a flat list?

Yes, in Ableton Live 11, everything felt much friendlier, more organized, and cohesive to me. Each instrument had its own categories, and the user presets were immediately visible, easy to save, and editable, making everything very clear. Even in hotswap mode, everything was much simpler.

The same goes for audio effects; now everything is in one long list, and I first have to select and/or expand the filters at the top, whereas before they were categorized, which was far more user-friendly for me and other users. Many people are not fans of long, unsorted lists.

Ideally, one would be able to choose between the more studio-oriented view of Live 11 or the Push-friendly view of Live 12. It would be fantastic to be able to get the old browser back.

Best regards,

Ben

[[bge]]

Works with some here, but e.g. Drum Rack and Sampler now show many more presets made from 3rd party companies like Samples from Mars.

All in all, you now need to click and declutter so much more the whole browser usage is just annoying af. Till Live 11 I mostly navigated the browser with the arrow keys (very fast) but now need the mouse for setting up filters and searches which may be conveniant for push users but not for more studio-oriented users.

To get a better picture of the issue, do you mean that you prefer how presets were organised in Live 11 where you unfolded a device in the browser and would see first the presets grouped into the sounds folders (Bass, Lead, Pad etc), and then you'd see a list of your user presets under that in a flat list?

Yes, in Ableton Live 11, everything felt much friendlier, more organized, and cohesive to me. Each instrument had its own categories, and the user presets were immediately visible, easy to save, and editable, making everything very clear. Even in hotswap mode, everything was much simpler.

The same goes for audio effects; now everything is in one long list, and I first have to select and/or expand the filters at the top, whereas before they were categorized, which was far more user-friendly for me and other users. Many people are not fans of long, unsorted lists.

Ideally, one would be able to choose between the more studio-oriented view of Live 11 or the Push-friendly view of Live 12. It would be fantastic to be able to get the old browser back.

Best regards,

Ben

Thanks for the feedback.
It won't be possible to revert to the Live 11 browser, as it's been reconstructed entirely for Live 12.

I'm trying to understand the problem a bit better though.

In Live 12 we still have all the audio effects categorized - just now using filters instead of folders.
Did you know that you can hide all filter groups that you don't need? Open the filters section, then right click on any groups that you don't want to see and "Hide [groupname]". If you want to replicate the experience almost 1:1 with Live 11, on Audio Effects you should just have the "Devices" filter group enabled. Then click the filter to see the corresponding devices (and their presets). This is the same amount of clicks that it takes in Live 11, the entry point is just slightly different (clicking a filter rather than expanding a folder).
If you want to get even more granular, enable the Content filter group and you can filter for Devices or Presets. All the presets and effect racks that were categorized in Live 11 are also categorized in Live 12, again using the "Devices" group filters.

Please let me know if that helps

[benmuetsch]

Yes it helps a bit that the sections and filter sets can be customized. Unfortunately still does not feel like home.

[benmuetsch]

The best workaround I've found to avoid the cluttered new browser is to rely more on the pack structures, particularly the Core Library. For Devices and Instruments/Effects, everything is more or less the same as before. For user presets, use the structure of the User Library.

Yesterday, I compared the presets in Live 11 and Live 12 and discovered that, for instance, not all Operator presets are tagged, making them impossible to find in the Live 12 browser via filters. This highlights how flawed the tagging, filtering, and Push-oriented two-knob approach really is.

[[bge]]

The best workaround I've found to avoid the cluttered new browser is to rely more on the pack structures, particularly the Core Library. For Devices and Instruments/Effects, everything is more or less the same as before. For user presets, use the structure of the User Library.

Yesterday, I compared the presets in Live 11 and Live 12 and discovered that, for instance, not all Operator presets are tagged, making them impossible to find in the Live 12 browser via filters. This highlights how flawed the tagging, filtering, and Push-oriented two-knob approach really is.

Hi Ben, can you let me know which Operator presets are not tagged so we can investigate?

[benmuetsch]

It's hard to tell because there are so many Operator presets from packs that the filtered search is quiet long but what I can say is that there is no "components" tag so at least these presets are not included in any filtered search as far as I can see.