Time Signatures

[Buleriachk]

Does Ableton Move implement time signatures? (Note does not).

Update: Neither Move or Note have time signatures. Neither does Akai Force.

IMO, This is a really inexcusable limitation in 2024; a very poor design choice., since it dumbs down a great deal of music by default to duple meter. Both should have a 4 x 16 matrix instead of four in a row (4x4) or even 8x8). (Like the Roland P-6, Akai FIre or any number of drum machines/sequencers that can implement a pattern length of 12, 16, 5/4, 9/8 and many others and keep tempo consistent at BPM.

IMNSHO, YMMV, of course.

[[jur]]

Not atm.

[Buleriachk]

That is a bummer. Both Push and Move (and Note) should provide a "last step) function, so that the grid would reflect the time signature (e.g., there would be 6 active steps for an 8x8 matrix for 3/4 time). Ideally, of course, the matrix would have 16 steps, so one could use 12 steps (one bar) for 3/4 time.

For bacing tracks, the Roland P-6 is currently a better option for me (Roland finally got it right)....
I own Push 3 Standalone and Live 12. What I would like to see is a simple 16 step hardware sequencer that could be used for Live input.

OTH, maybe such a controller is available for Live for odd time signatures? (I just had a thought that the P-6 might be used that way, since it has 16 steps and Midi out, Maybe Ableton could create a template for it?)

[Buleriachk]

I just realized that the Fire controller from Fruity Loops would be perfect (especially if Note and Ableton software were upgraded with a 16 x 4 matrix option).

Update: I just started Live and discovered that the Roland P-6 was already recognized as a Midi Controller and sequenced a 12 step loop (3/4). Need to start experimenting (I assume Fruity Loops Fire would also work). Don't have time right now, but perhaps this weekend....

[[jur]]

You can workaround it by playing with the loop length, but of course that presents other challenges.

[Buleriachk]

NativeKontrol has script for Fire (I just realized I have a Fire and NK Crossfire)
Onward, Excelsior! If Note only had 3/4....

[chapelier fou]

It is a shame and why I consider Move as a complete toy at the moment.
Who the fuck did decide that every music in the world is supposed to be in 4/4 ? This drives me mad.

[chapelier fou]

You can workaround it by playing with the loop length, but of course that presents other challenges.

Like not being able to trigger clips in time ? That's not what I call a challenge, but rather an impossibility.

[Buleriachk]

You can workaround it by playing with the loop length, but of course that presents other challenges.

This is impossible for all sorts of reasons, and I expect that you have never actually tried it in reality.
This is 2024, and to omit time signatures is just ridiculous (Akai Force also).

But the sin by omission is to not mention the limitation in the marketing hype (and especially in the user manual), making real musicians always be on the alert not to purchase a unit with such a stupid design. I purchased Note without recognizing this, which was a totally wasted investment for me.

[[jur]]

You can workaround it by playing with the loop length, but of course that presents other challenges.

Like not being able to trigger clips in time ? That's not what I call a challenge, but rather an impossibility.

It's not impossible. I can switch from a 3/4 to a 5/4 in time.
Of course these are patterns I recorded by playing them, not by sequencing them. Of course the steps buttons and quantize become useless in this case, but "real musicians" don't like grids anyway, right @Buleriachk [/sarcasm off]
I'm not a 4/4 addict, nor a midi only synth/sample-based groovebox person. There's many things I'd like Move to have, and Push too, and Live too. But I've been enjoying playing with Move's limitations quite a lot tbh. It's almost annoying how quick it is to create new ideas with it... that just add to the ton of unfinished tracks.

@Buleriachk I'm neither responsible for the marketing nor the user guide, but I'll definitely forward your remark to the team.
And I have hope future updates will improve in this area, fingers crossed.

[Buleriachk]

You can workaround it by playing with the loop length, but of course that presents other challenges.

Like not being able to trigger clips in time ? That's not what I call a challenge, but rather an impossibility.

It's not impossible. I can switch from a 3/4 to a 5/4 in time.
Of course these are patterns I recorded by playing them, not by sequencing them. Of course the steps buttons and quantize become useless in this case, but "real musicians" don't like grids anyway, right @Buleriachk [/sarcasm off]
I'm not a 4/4 addict, nor a midi only synth/sample-based groovebox person. There's many things I'd like Move to have, and Push too, and Live too. But I've been enjoying playing with Move's limitations quite a lot tbh. It's almost annoying how quick it is to create new ideas with it... that just add to the ton of unfinished tracks.

@Buleriachk I'm neither responsible for the marketing nor the user guide, but I'll definitely forward your remark to the team.
And I have hope future updates will improve in this area, fingers crossed.

The problem is with the Midi tempo ... especially when trying to sync it with other units that do have correctly configured time signatures relative to tempo. (e.g., syncing it to a 5/4 time signature of a Live project.) WAY more trouble than it is worth, and it is simply stupid to put musicians through that kind of exercise in 2024. IMNSHO, of course....

[[jur]]

Yeah I understand this Buleriachk, that's why I said you can workaround it but it presents challenges.

Regarding P3, I know it's not perfect for step sequencing but you can set any time sig, and between the various step resolutions and the clip editor view it's flexible enough imo.

[chapelier fou]

How do you switch non 4/4 clips in time ?
Even with one single 3/4 clip (12 steps) I can’t retrigger it in time (well it works one time out of four to be accurate).
I’m talking about the Global Quantization, which is hidden, running in 4/4 in the background.
Or did I miss something ?

[forestcaver]

The problem is with the Midi tempo ... especially when trying to sync it with other units that do have correctly configured time signatures relative to tempo. (e.g., syncing it to a 5/4 time signature of a Live project.) WAY more trouble than it is worth, and it is simply stupid to put musicians through that kind of exercise in 2024. IMNSHO, of course....

I dont think that is an issue at all, as (from my reading of the manual) you cant sync it to an external midi clock anyway.

[Buleriachk]

Anyoune arguing against time signature functionality simply does not understand time signatures.
IM, of course, your mileage may vary.

Be happy with your four-on-the-floor Amen break
... and hope you never have to accompany a belly dancer (karsimala) .