Hot-Swap: Device Type Confusion?

[otalgia99]

Hey everyone

Suite 12.2.1. user here -- is anyone else finding that Hot Swap isn't able to correctly identify the device to be swapped in all cases? Often an accurate association is made, but I'm finding that rather often Hot Swap seems... confused.

Example: Roar > "Multi Band Stutter" > Hot Swap button brings up.... the Delay category? Ought it not take me back to the Roar family of options?

As I say, not a consistent behavior, but not isolated either.

hmm,
o99

[[jur]]

Example: Roar > "Multi Band Stutter" > Hot Swap button brings up.... the Delay category?

It's bringing up the correct Roar presets folder here.
Are you hotswapping from Live, or Push?

Also, the current version is L12.2.5. Try updating and let us know if it helps.

[yur2die4]

From what I recall, hot swapping goes directly to the folder or directory that you pulled that particular device from.

This can actually be a clever way to organize some presets or devices such that one could quickly hot swap on like a Push and have quick access to favorites instead of having to scroll hundreds of presets.

[b-righteous]

Your not crazy. Hot swap is busted in Live 12. Been that way since at least 12.1 if not before. The behavior is not consistent. The issue is when using tags/filters to load something and trying to hot swap after. It may work the first time but after that it wants to pull in the filter search from a previous track that is not related. Seems like it only wants to recall tags from the first thing you load. From there it gets all weird. You either have to not use filters at all or don't use hot swap. On top of that there is a bug specific to Push when hot swapping individual pads from a loaded drum rack.

Ableton have been made aware and have solid steps to reproduce these bugs but refuse to fix it. Not sure if its difficult to fix or if they don't feel this is a priority but its been a long time since these issues have been reported.

[otalgia99]

Your not crazy. Hot swap is busted in Live 12. Been that way since at least 12.1 if not before. The behavior is not consistent. The issue is when using tags/filters to load something and trying to hot swap after. It may work the first time but after that it wants to pull in the filter search from a previous track that is not related. Seems like it only wants to recall tags from the first thing you load. From there it gets all weird. You either have to not use filters at all or don't use hot swap. On top of that there is a bug specific to Push when hot swapping individual pads from a loaded drum rack.

Ableton have been made aware and have solid steps to reproduce these bugs but refuse to fix it. Not sure if its difficult to fix or if they don't feel this is a priority but its been a long time since these issues have been reported.

Thanks very much for the insight. Your scenario description is consistent with what I'm experiencing, and I appreciate the validation that what I'm observing is in fact an identified oddity.

It seems to me that, as Live becomes more complex and "feature-ful," the opportunities for anomalies increase. I'm OK with that -- all part of the process, yada.

Hopefully it'll get fixed, but thanks to your input I can at least stop abrading my scalp over it.

o99

[[jur]]

If I recall correctly, I think there's an issue when you're hotswapping a device for which you've saved a custom default preset, when you're hotswapping from this default custom preset.

[[bge]]

Thanks very much for the insight. Your scenario description is consistent with what I'm experiencing, and I appreciate the validation that what I'm observing is in fact an identified oddity.

It seems to me that, as Live becomes more complex and "feature-ful," the opportunities for anomalies increase. I'm OK with that -- all part of the process, yada.

Hopefully it'll get fixed, but thanks to your input I can at least stop abrading my scalp over it.
o99

Can you please post exact reproduction steps, because I can't reproduce on my end.

Your not crazy. Hot swap is busted in Live 12. Been that way since at least 12.1 if not before. The behavior is not consistent. The issue is when using tags/filters to load something and trying to hot swap after. It may work the first time but after that it wants to pull in the filter search from a previous track that is not related. Seems like it only wants to recall tags from the first thing you load. From there it gets all weird. You either have to not use filters at all or don't use hot swap. On top of that there is a bug specific to Push when hot swapping individual pads from a loaded drum rack.

Ableton have been made aware and have solid steps to reproduce these bugs but refuse to fix it. Not sure if its difficult to fix or if they don't feel this is a priority but its been a long time since these issues have been reported.

Please post the Centercode bug ID, or Zendesk support ticket if you previously reported this.

[otalgia99]

Apologies for the delay in returning to this thread, I've been off line for about a month.

Hot-swap appears to be working for me now but I will need to re-focus upon the question. Now that I'm back to work I will roll this question back into my process.

Warm regards,
o99

[otalgia99]

HS still appears to be functioning as expected... mostly (like, 98% mostly).

Keepin' my eye on it,
o99

[b-righteous]

Please post the Centercode bug ID, or Zendesk support ticket if you previously reported this.

Sorry I missed your reply.

Two bug reports relating to this. L12-BUG-3842 is for the Hot-swap when used with filters that affects Live 12 on Windows 11 in software GUI and Push in controller mode. I think the same for standalone. Hot swap resets filters or fails on successive hot swap attempts when any filtering was used for results:
Part 1.
Create a new midi track.
From Library labels, click Instruments.
From the filter group Sound, click Bass.
In the results list, expand Drift and double click AG Bass to load.
Click the All label again.
Click the hot swap button on the AG Bass Device.

What actually did happen?
Notice the filters show Bass highlighted as expected on the GUI.

Part 2.
Click the hot swap button again to dismiss hot swap mode.
Now, create another new midi track.
From the filter group Sound, click Guitar & Plucked.
Click Chord Key Stabs under Drift to load preset.
Click the All label again.
Click hot swap button on the Chord Key Stabs device/preset.

What actually did happen?
Notice the filter Guitar & Plucked is not selected as expected. Instead, Bass is selected which was from the previously loaded track.
Pressing hot swap again to exit hot swap will now highlight the correct filter for Guitar & Plucked. However, this does not help since we are out of hot swap mode. Clicking hot swap again goes back to the wrong filter that was for the previous track. (see video attached)

Part 3.
Now press hot swap on Push 3 to toggle into the browser.

What actually did happen?
Notice the results list on Push is completely different from the GUI. It shares the incorrect Bass filter from the previous track like Lives GUI. However, the results seem to be as if there is no filter. Also notice the Live GUI as you continue to toggle hot swap on Push. It will cycle between the original track Bass filter, and the correct Guitar & Plucked filter every other time you enter hot swap.

PUSH3BUG-00775,is related to hot swapping individual pads from a loaded drum rack and only affects Push. This issue is it does not locate to the sample folder for the current loaded sample.

Open Ableton on Windows with Push 3 in controller mode.
Load a factory drum rack that uses drum sampler to a midi track. (I used DECAP DTK1 kit for example)
Select devices on Push 3 and use upper buttons to reveal drum sampler pad (Kick DECAP 1)
Press button 3 again or press button 4 to select Drum Sampler
Press hot swap button
Press lower button 1 to select sample
Compare results list on Push 3 browser vs GUI.


What did you expect to happen?
I expect Push to locate and highlight the current sample loaded to the drum pad just like it does in the software GUI.

What actually did happen?
Push 3 failed to locate to the current sample loaded to the pad. The Push 3 browser results are not displaying samples in same folder as existing sample source. However, the software GUI locates the correct sample and drills down to the correct folder results as expected. There is a discrepancy between the Push 3 results and the GUI browser results when this happens. If the software is capable of doing this correct, the Push should be capable since it is in controller mode.

As of now, the new 12.1.5 feature "When hot-swapping a Drum Sampler, you can now choose whether to swap the device or the sample inside of the device." is not working properly.

Note that there is no issue if you first load a sample to a pad and use swap. The issue seems to only appear after loading a drum rack, then attempting to swap a sample on an individual pad. . In this scenario, the hardware seems to get confused abut the individual drum pad source sample location vs. the GUI.

[b-righteous]

Also, Push 3 controller mode plugin browsing does not work for midi tracks unless you use the default plugin label. Trying to access a plugin from the browser outside of that will not show any results. This works fine for audio tracks though.

[[bge]]

Thank you for sharing the bug reports. I'll relay them to the relevant team backlogs.

I have two followup questions:
1. How often do you use hotswap?
2. When you use hotswap are you primarily hotswapping presets of the same device? or do you also swap in new devices too?

[b-righteous]

Thank you for sharing the bug reports. I'll relay them to the relevant team backlogs.

I have two followup questions:
1. How often do you use hotswap?
2. When you use hotswap are you primarily hotswapping presets of the same device? or do you also swap in new devices too?

1. Hotswap is an integral part of my workflow. I would like to use it whenever I need to look for sounds. I often trade out sounds if things don't sit right. This is important for the initial creative process to get to the sounds you need fast without bugs and issues. The browser should just work as expected and not kill your vibe.
2. It's a mix. Could be same device or several that match the filter. Like I may need to find an acoustic bass from my library. I load one in and play it, not quite what I want so I press hot swap to find another. This may include VST3 plugins alongside stock devices. Could be specific types of samples from my user library too.

[oalbrecht]

This is also important to me and is the most frustrating thing with using the Push 3. It seriously is making me consider returning it. It's also still happening in the latest release.

I filed two support tickets that are related to this issue:
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/requests/3091395
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/requests/3091570