Utility Mid Side vs Width

[doubleUG]

https://cycling74.com/forums/ableton-ut ... e-vs-width

Whats the difference between utility mid/side and width? And why has Max abl.device.utility~ only mid/side level and no width control.
Or is it all the same?

[pottering]

I think Width controls the Side's gain from 0% to 400% without touching the Mid, on the other hand seems Mid/Side fades out the Side tweaking to to the left (from center 0 to 100M) and fades out the Mid tweaking to the right (center 0 to 100S).

I don't know about abl.device.utility~, maybe they forgot, maybe C74 decided Width was not useful, you can contact them and report it as a potential bug or feature request.

[[jur]]

Width to 0 sums the left and right channel together.
When doing so, Mid/Side extracts the mid channel by getting only what's similar in the left and right, while its side equals their differences.

[doubleUG]

thanx all.

https://maxforlive.com/library/device/1 ... ity-device

does the same as Ableton Utility. So Width is only about Mid/Side levels.

[[jur]]

does the same as Ableton Utility. So Width is only about Mid/Side levels.

No, it's not the same as mid/side processing.
In practice, if you increase the width (so, Width mode) you don't loose the center (i.e what's identical in both channel) signal. While as you go toward 100s in m/s mode the "center" disappears.
Also in m/s, if you set it to 100s and then mono the signal afterward you'll end up with no signal because of phase cancellation (as the "s" in "m/s" is phase inverted between both channel).

The mono (ie 100M) in m/s is what's similar in both channel, while the mono in Width is just everything "folded" to the center.

Just try for yourself. Create a rack with 3 e.g operator. Set a different tone to each one to easily distinguish them.
Set one to the center, one full left and one full right.
Add a Utility and play with the width and m/s.
Then keep experimenting and add a 2nd Utility set to Mono right after the first one. It should tell you much more than words

[doubleUG]

looking at the max patch B.S Audio Utility.

Mid/Side sets the levels of Mid and Side from x0 to x1 / 1x to 0x

Width only sets the level of the Side from x0. to x4. The Mid level stays at x1.

Case Closed

Thx all

[[jur]]

I don't know what's inside this M4L device, but since you asked about Utility I tried to explain what it's doing.
If you want to believe Width's side signal is the same as the m/s one then it's up to you