DJing with Live 5

purusha · Post by **purusha** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:50 pm

Just tried the demo.

Seems *possible* to beatmatch, but it's very fiddly.

If you don't use warp, and just pitch it - it has to be done the old-fashioned way.

Either warping or pitching seem to apply artifacts I don't get with CDJs (and obviously not with vinyl).

I'm guessing this is because the clock is still 44khz for the track, and the software is having to do clever resampling.

I have a feeling that CDJs actually drive a hardware clock's rate digitally, so that you're getting the same number of samples faster or slower. Anyone know if that's he case or not? Either that, or the resampling is *very*good on the CDJs.

Any tips for DJing with Live? Have to say that it's unlikely I'll use it, but I'm interested in the techniques.

If I *do* go the *Live* route, it will be for performing my own material.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:56 pm

In my experience, if warped properly using the right algorithm, artifacts are virtually nonexistant and certainly irrelevant for club environments.

purusha · Post by **purusha** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:05 pm

I've tried beat and complex. It could be psychological (i.e. I've convinced myself it sounds strange), so I'll give it a more thorough listening.

However - jogging definitely doesn't seem to be as controllable as my CDJ 1000s. Any ideas on getting a more accurate jog position?

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:29 pm

purusha wrote:I've tried beat and complex. It could be psychological (i.e. I've convinced myself it sounds strange), so I'll give it a more thorough listening.

However - jogging definitely doesn't seem to be as controllable as my CDJ 1000s. Any ideas on getting a more accurate jog position?

try using repitch as well as complex.

repitch will give you a CDJ/Technics style pitching effect, and generally has the fewest artifacts of all the warp modes.

purusha · Post by **purusha** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:52 pm

Yeah - repitch sounds a lot better. Thanks!

I still need better resolution on the nudge though for beatmatching.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:13 pm

purusha wrote:Yeah - repitch sounds a lot better. Thanks!

I still need better resolution on the nudge though for beatmatching.

what i have found to be the most effective is let Auto-Warp find the BPM.
for dance music it will find the correct BPM 9 times out of 10.

however, it will not always find the correct beat to put the first warp marker on.
So, i'll auto warp for BPM, then manually adjust the first warp marker to the first beat, right click that marker and select "warp from here".

and if its a track that i haven't yet warped, and i just dragged it in from the browser during the middle of a performance. i make sure to hit the SAVE button in the Clip View. This saves all my warp settings with the .mp3. So that the next time i drag it in, its all ready to go.

Depending on the source of the music (stuff recorded from vinyl will tend to record the "float"), i occasionally go through half way and 3/4's way through the tracks and define a couple extra Warp markers just to make sure everything is sync'd and will stay sync'd.

With Live 5, it hasn't failed me yet. I do a weekly event and have been using Live 5 since the beta every week to do exactly what i described above. Mixing anything and everything from Michael Jackson to George Clinton to Gorillaz, Thomas Schumacher, Richie Hawtin, Dead Kennedys, Prince, and my own material (including Live stuff in Live, Trigger Finger drumming, etc.)

Hope this helps.

Tuur · Post by **Tuur** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:49 am

AdamJay wrote:however, it will not always find the correct beat to put the first warp marker on.

Hm. My opinion is slightly different.

But anyways...

So, i'll auto warp for BPM, then manually adjust the first warp marker to the first beat, right click that marker and select "warp from here".

If this fails you can also try to select all markers (click the first > ctrl+a) and move them about.

I use this most of the time now.

Oh, and you could also try texture warping too. IMHO it sounds a lot like the CDJ500s...

digitalhermes · Post by **digitalhermes** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:17 pm

I've compared all the warping modes when rendering mixes of psychedelic trance and the only one that seems to sound OK is repitch. Every other mode produces timing glitches and cause my low end kick to bounce around inconsistenly in the frequency department - absolutely useless for any dance music with loud, thumping kicks.

Is there any difference between the overall warping mode in the preferences and individual mode for each clip? It seems to me that the indivdual settings superscede the general setting so that if every clip were set to "Repitch" and the general were set to "Beats" that the "Beats" setting would have no real effect. Clarification?

ben_blue · Post by **ben_blue** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:45 pm

if the warp markers arent on the right places, you will hear those artifacts, liek its "bouncing around."

there is no "voerall" warping mode. there is a defualt mode for a new clip. each clip only has one mode.

i warp dance all day and nite, and beats or complex is it. just gotta work at getting the markers RIGHT ON, which is easy with a bit of practice.

usually you only need one marker, at the 1.1.1, and go to the middle/ end and drag a marker where it's supposed to be.

robert che · Post by **robert che** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:33 am

I will tell you guys an easier way....place your first warp mark 1.1.1 where it needs to go. Warp from there. Now que it in your head phones and listen while the other track is playing, and if it is off beat use the arrow keys on your key board back and forth till you beat match. You have to click on the 1.1.1 to select it in the clip display window. Once you click on 1.1.1 it gets locked to your arrow keys and you can push 1.1.1 back and forth like a nudge on decks.

I have struggled for days using every single method of beat matching and setting the different warp modes. I now use re-pitch and the arrow keys to nudge the correct beat match.

I hope this helps.

supster · Post by **supster** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:08 am

ben_blue wrote:if the warp markers arent on the right places, you will hear those artifacts, liek its "bouncing around."

yup this is exactly his problem.

warp markers need to be consistantly placed in relation to the transient of the kick or it will 'duck' in and out.

the smallest moves can make a difference. this is another reason to always, always warp against a consistant standard audible kick loop.

digitalhermes · Post by **digitalhermes** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:38 pm

OK, so perhaps I can fix a bouncing kick drum by adjusting the warp markers, I haven't tried. But frankly, I find it hard to believe that there will never be no artifacts added to tracks when using any mode besides repitch.

I've also decided that I happen to like the oldschool sound of repitching since it makes tracks a bit out of tune with each other. I think that this adds a psychological aspect to track transitions that is good. A little dissonance actually adds to the impact of a track that is in tune with itself when the previous track has ended or been cut out. Get me?

Additionally, I am not interested in any extra steps when it comes to making mixes with Live. With repitch, I just load the tracks into live and I beatmatch them from the arrangement view. Having to mess with the warp markers actually seems like an extra step. Does everyone else make set their warp markers perfectly before mixing?

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:47 pm

no, sometimes if I dont have a warped version of a track but I know the BPM I just drag the track in and turn warp off - it lets you play the track imediately that way. You need to bend the outgoing track to the correct tempo of course.

Then when that unwarped track is playing I take a copy into a new pattern and find a nice loop in the cans, then bring that in over the top to take it into the next segment.

Sometimes this even works

vinkalmann · Post by **vinkalmann** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:50 pm

The beauty of having tracks properly warped is that all that time that is usually spent beat matching is freed up so you can play with effects on the tracks. I agree that using re-pitch is cool because being out of tune does add impact. Take the idea further though, if you're not spending the time to beat match, you can add whatever kind of dissonance you want. There's really no limit.

While Live can be used to play tracks traditional DJ style, there's just SO much more that it can be used for when playing shows.

For people DJing without a midi controller, get one! It will be the best money you spend. Opens whole new worlds.