MIDIgun

Macrostructure · Post by **Macrostructure** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:16 am

Check out MIDIgun!!....and my controller too natch....

http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:22 am

Ideal for Gangsta rap!

But I guess you would be arrested if brandishing one of those on stage...

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:30 pm

BTW, your controller was pretty cool! Excellent idea to include an midi->usb interface in the box.

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:10 pm

Tsuyoshi Suzuki used to have some M16 type controller or something....

Not sure of the details, and haven't been able to find any info...

Was super funny seeing a Japanese guy dressed as rambo with an M16
and heaps of ppl dancing their asses off

-Ben

DirtRider · Post by **DirtRider** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:11 pm

Macro,

Nice controller, can you give us more details on how to build it, because the doepfer site is erm rather cryptic.
Also, where did you get the dials etc?

Cheers,

Dirt

Macrostructure · Post by **Macrostructure** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:17 pm

Michael-SW wrote:BTW, your controller was pretty cool! Excellent idea to include an midi->usb interface in the box.

Thanks!

Macrostructure · Post by **Macrostructure** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:20 pm

DirtRider wrote:Macro,

Nice controller, can you give us more details on how to build it, because the doepfer site is erm rather cryptic.
Also, where did you get the dials etc?

Cheers,

Dirt

Well, I am thinking of marketing it as a 'parts list plus drawings kit' for home assembly, crystal-set style, so I'd rather not divulge more than is on my own site at http://www.macrostructure.net/unitfive.htm Hope you understand. Dials are all either Doepfer (ie Alps) or from RS.

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:25 am

I really like your design, and I am interested in learning more about designing midi controllers. I would be very interested in learning more about this kit, and how you programmed it to interact with Live.

Is the converter, which you pulled from a pre-existing evolution control, the means for communication?

Is this a potential cause for price mark up/ are there other options for the layman, or some basic workarounds for someone interested in learning max/msp?

Thank you, as I am REALLY interested in both the features, the opportunity, as well as the inspiring aesthetic!

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:56 am

If it's your kinda thing....... You can always get a PIC Microcontroller
http://www.microchip.com/ and program it using ASM to output whatever
MIDI you want based on whatever input you need.

-Ben

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:15 am

Easier (but probably not cheaper) is to buy Doepfer preassembled MIDI control boards. They have one unit that can handle 64 buttons and two others that handles 16 pots and 16 rotary encoders respectively. Then you midi merge the output from those.

That is what the MIDI gun uses (and eg. Monolake's controller).

Look here:

http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm

Macrostructure · Post by **Macrostructure** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:42 am

Michael-SW wrote:Easier (but probably not cheaper) is to buy Doepfer preassembled MIDI control boards. They have one unit that can handle 64 buttons and two others that handles 16 pots and 16 rotary encoders respectively. Then you midi merge the output from those.

That is what the MIDI gun uses (and eg. Monolake's controller).

Look here:

http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm

I have no idea how the Doepfer CTM64 board fits into the MIDI gun I must say.

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:59 am

They use the "Pocket Electronics" according to their homepage:

http://www.midigun.com/midiGunchart.htm

I think you can connect switches instead of pots if you want to.

Macrostructure · Post by **Macrostructure** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:14 am

LOFA wrote:I really like your design, and I am interested in learning more about designing midi controllers. I would be very interested in learning more about this kit, and how you programmed it to interact with Live.

Is the converter, which you pulled from a pre-existing evolution control, the means for communication?

Is this a potential cause for price mark up/ are there other options for the layman, or some basic workarounds for someone interested in learning max/msp?

Thank you, as I am REALLY interested in both the features, the opportunity, as well as the inspiring aesthetic!

First off, mine is the black oblong unit, not the MIDIgun - just checking!

I think the thing to point out is the considerable cost of prototyping, which it typically about double the parts cost of the unit, even for a fairly linear development path. So don't get going until you have plenty of money set aside or there is no time pressure.

The unit is based around an 8-channel live performance situation (which I think is enough now that live can group and internally route channels) plus 3 send/return tracks (I like dub so this is important for delays etc). The physical layout of the unit was determined as a logical response to the way I write and perform: 8 tracks are controled by the 4x8 array of blue knobs and the 4 buttons/track below them. The sends are controlled by the yellow 4 x 3 array, which doubles as a DJing console when used with the crossfader below. The red knobs and the buttons on the right control master channel parameters and transport respectively. The toggles can control scene selection for example. They are surprisingly useful. Bank change switches enable each 2 x 8 group of blue knobs and the whole 4 x 3 yellow array plus the red buttons to be flicked between different groups of assignments independantly, making the unit very powerful and flexible.

The unit is set up to send increment/decrement messages from all knobs and it sends note on/off from all switches. It is then just a question of assiging these to parameters in Live as you wish. I do not use a template in live so there is no preset assigment structure either in the unit itself or when I use it with live.

Yes, the evolution controller is the menas of communication. All PCB's are chained together then into this unit. I have not had any problems with latency i.e. it is there but it is acceptable. If a midi-in port was included in the chain and a keybord was plugged in off the end (an option I considered) I think it would prove problematic for qualty playing.

The considerable cost of the unit make questions about markup kind of irrelevant, no offence - there is simply no commercial market at this price point, for what is in essence just a high-spec MIDI controller. Hence my research into selling it as parts lists plus drawings for enthusiast-only project assembly. There is a market there, in people who love to craft things. For those who want a good midi controller, well, the market is full and they are very cheap, so it's not possible to justify spending the necessary amount on a pre-built one like mine. If you were going to spend that much you would pay someone to build you one to your own spec, rather than mine! It's got four Doepfer boards in it for starters, have a look at the prices for these things, do the maths, and you will see what I mean

I don't quite understand where you are going with your MAX/MSP question - can you elaborate?

Thanks for your kind compliments on the unit!

ms

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:42 pm

HI. My questions were generally shots in the dark.

I did not read the part of this thread or another where you mentioned any prices, so I running on the notion that as long as I can learn what I desire from building such a thing from a kit (as you metioned you might be interested in) I would be interested in putting it together an either using or reselling.

My father delves in electronics professionally, and I have been meaning to find a way of collaborating with him on similiar endeavors. He is a sort of snob about functional design (he likes Live's layout BTW), and my intuition is that he would have fun helping me with this.

If you have any more specifics or interest, please PM me. I trust you are reasonable, and I am not so much concerned about markup as I am that this unit requires an immediate price increase from the evolution part (with which I haven't yet figured out it's purpose.)

As far as Max/Msp, I was making a sort of ad-hoc suggestion that maybe you could elaborate on how this unit interacts with a (in my case Mac) cpu.

Thanks!

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:53 pm

The Evolution part is just a multi port midi->USB interface.

Basically, you buy the Doepfer modules to give you button/rotary->midi functionality. If you already have a multi port midi interface you can then plug the doepfer modules into that.

Check out Doepfer's homepage (see above).