L5.0.2b3: strange orange dot behaviour

astar · Post by **astar** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:00 pm

now that the "imaginary" grid is only 1 bar long it seems to have created a new strangeness to the orange dot phenomenon.

When nudging (forward) the start position of a clip that is longer than a bar, the orange dot seems to skip past the middle of the clip

To re-create:

Take a 2 bar clip and drag into session
Put global quantize to 1/4 ( or some other quantize smaller than that )
Select and trigger clip and start nudging forward (>>)
On nudging the orange dot goes to 1.2 then 1.3 but then on the 3rd nudge it zips all the way over to 2.4 (???)

very strange and definitely has to be a bug!

Stefan Haller · Post by **Stefan Haller** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:30 pm

No, that's not a bug.

Remember that the orange dot indicates the position that the start marker would be set to if you were to press "Keep" now. Normally that position is within a range of half a bar to either side of where the start marker is now. However, if the start marker is inside the loop, we never move it out of the loop if you press Keep; we wrap it around to the end instead. That's why the orange dot is drawn near the end of the loop as well in that case.

Hope that makes sense.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:42 pm

how does this logic work for a 4 bar loop, EG a vocal riff segment.

does this 1 bar loop mean that we will never be able to see where the start marker will really go to?

Eg I have a chorus like this:

"
Oh baby I love you,
but I really have to say,
you are like an orange dot,
moving in a mysterious way.
"

if I wanted to nudge so that the start maker was to start at the beginning of the word "Orange" ... IE I want my clip to sync start at that word - it makes sense to me that the orange dot would be indicating itself at that point. Like this :
.orange

Not at some imaginary point within a 1 bar loop, probably off the left hand side of my screen ... that would put it at 'Love' or somewhere ... I really don't know!

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:55 pm

i think you would have the clip start marker on the "orange" rather than the orange dot.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:04 pm

I have to say that the way "oranging" works now is a lot cooler than in 5.01. The visual feedback involved is quite good.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:05 pm

peeddrroo wrote:i think you would have the clip start marker on the "orange" rather than the orange dot.

yeah, just use the offset until you get to the position you want and then press set - you can do all this via midi if you want.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:42 pm

I should say : I've not personally experienced terrible functional problems with the dot, others obviously have.

the only issue I have had is one of understanding.

I think the flaw in the dot inclusion was mainly due to lack of a decent explanation of the concept behind it. Just one small paragraph was too little - as it was quite different from the previous way of doing things. Also this is probably the first abetonian function which operates on a "notional basis" IE it requires user conceptualisation of a notional grid rather than WYSIWYG like everything else.

I think they should extend the manual section for this important function in future editions.

Chris J · Post by **Chris J** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:40 pm

Stefan Haller wrote:No, that's not a bug.

Remember that the orange dot indicates the position that the start marker would be set to if you were to press "Keep" now.

so why are clips offset and play out of sync although I've never pressed keep in my entire life ?

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:07 pm

Chris, I've actually seen a problem regarding this, when restarting live using the space bar - starting with the play button up top seems to fix this - HTH?

Best,
Andreas

serotoninsteve · Post by **serotoninsteve** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:47 pm

Yes stoping the whole machine cures it, but it comes back, believe me.

I´ve found some other strangenesses, will post them tomorow, too late now.

Greetings

Chris J · Post by **Chris J** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:37 am

yes you have to juggle between space bar , revert, a double stop to go back to bar 1.1.1, and manually move the start marker :
I give up.
This is very frustrating because I was waiting for so many functions now included (set import, clip saving, width of tracks, complex mode) but this side of the program is such a time waster. I'm a slave to this program, and I hate that. Computers are here to help not to make life harder, and when a music program takes your energy in shit like that, you don't have inspiration for music.
I understand that people who make music using ready made loops and just putting them in square boxes won't have any problem, for they're not using live in depth. The frustration comes from working with previous versions, (that had limits hence eagerly waiting for this update) the warping WAS the innovation, scenes to arrange on the fly WAS an innovation.
THIS IS GONE IN NEW VERSION due to extremely poor design, and most of all, no testing from the programmers.
I spent 2 whole months reporting about that, and so have other people, but there are no improvements in sight. It's actually getting worse.
So bye bye