Logic and Live

nblazer · Post by **nblazer** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:23 pm

Hey ive been using logic for a while now, and i wanna bone it as hard as i can, i f'ing love it, but im getting tempted by ableton and wanna pick it up, i dont get how would i be able to use both cause im not willing to give up logic, but i really wanna use live,
also on a side not, i have reason, and mpc and and a fantom x7 how would if i baught live hook everything up in harmony,
thnx champs,
btw, ive been looking through this boards, u guys have to be by far the smartest people on any message boards, anywhere and definetly the most usesfull, huge props

claude_young · Post by **claude_young** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:42 pm

I have been using Logic (since version 3) and Live (since version 1) for quite some time now and they are fantastic together. It really forms the ultimate toolbox for any kind of production. Here are a few suggestions for use.

1. Using Rewire you can sync live with logic. I use this to quickly build complex beats, backing tracks and atmospheres that you just cant create as quickly in Logic. I then bounce these down using Logics bounce function on the master mixers output. Of course I know many people who just work at the same tempo and export the audio from Live into Logic.

2. As a logic user you no doubt love the environment layers as much as I do. Live has gone one better by presenting a very easy and logical routing system in Live. They have almost all the tools you can find in Logics environment - Chord Makers - Random Velocity - Pitch adjustment, the works. I find it much quicker to build free flowing midi processes in Live 5. I then may use the results in Logic. They are pretty much totally interchangeable but Live is so intuitive that I'm using it more and more every day.

3. If your using a Mac you can download Soundflower and run the audio from your Logic session into Live. Allowing you to create amazing arrangements and Jam sessions in Live. I use a small app called midi clock to sync them together effectively creating a reverse rewire situation. Live as the master Logic as thew slave.

4. The Live Simpler & Impulse samplers are probably my favorite samplers in the world. I was a big fan of the ESX but these machines while not having a lot of the same functions all you to create things you could not normally create so quickly in Logic.

I could go on and on but in parting I would say definitely have a look at Live 5, its an amazing achievement in software programming. Smart, sexy and amazingly intuitive. Logic is more like a university course and if you have put in the time you can get amazing results. But Live is just so easy to use and has all the tools to give you a more spontaneous workflow.

Good luck and hope you have a serious look at Live 5!

nblazer · Post by **nblazer** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:40 am

lol thnx a bunch man,
one thing i dont get is, like what would rewiring for both of them, does that mean i can take like the stuff i record, put them into a clip, and then jam from their? then when im done put my final composition back into logic, and then master????

claude_young · Post by **claude_young** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:49 am

nblazer wrote:lol thnx a bunch man,
one thing i dont get is, like what would rewiring for both of them, does that mean i can take like the stuff i record, put them into a clip, and then jam from their? then when im done put my final composition back into logic, and then master????

That's exactly what I mean. Not only can you do it with the Audio but with the midi as well. You don' have to necessarily use rewire as long as you work in the same tempo but it helps to hear what you are doing realtime. You can drag and drop audio and midi clips between each app. Its a total winner.

Kindest regards!

nblazer · Post by **nblazer** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:35 am

lol........... damn!!! thats hott
would u recomend recording audio into live or logic first??
could u give me an example of how u would do a beat using both????
lol thnx so much man

claude_young · Post by **claude_young** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:29 am

nblazer wrote:lol........... damn!!! thats hott
would u recomend recording audio into live or logic first??
could u give me an example of how u would do a beat using both????
lol thnx so much man

Its a totally open process. Thats what I love so much about it. Working this way you are free to do anything you like so you can work more in Logic if your more comfortable in it and the experience messing about with live will bring you up to speed on using live.

For example. I take a break beat and put it into Lives arrange page. I split it into musical sections (quarter note sections). I thin drop each section into the impulse sampler (in Live) and play an original drum pattern. The results are totally unique.
I jam in Live and create variations. Then I have a few options, I can either record the results as Audio and bring them into logic to use as custom loops.
Or I use the resulting midi files and use them in logic synths along with the drum track audio loops.

Live's mixer is much easier to automate than logic so sometimes i build a whole track in logic then i freeze all the tracks. I take the freeze files and put them all into Lives mixer and do a totally freeform mix. Because the midi mapping is so easy in Live it gives me a more live feel. Im using logic 6 so I'm not sure about automation in 7 but with any cheap midi controller you can assign all the mixer functions easily in a few seconds.

The thing to remember is that you don't have any limitations when working with the 2 programs. You free to do thing's however you like because they both use standards for audio and midi (AIFF / WAV / standard MIDI files).

Live is very quick to set up and route. Its liker working with real world equipment. Although this can be said about logic as well the setup time and freeform manipulation is quicker in Live. If i want to automate a synth in logic so i can use several controllers i have to set up an environment that controls several parameters. In live i click the relevant control on the mixer or synth turn the knobs on my evolution UC-16 and I'm all set to start mixing. Its the business!

Hope this helps. If you don't have live I really suggest you download a demo and just play with it for a day on its own. You wont be disappointed... I Promise!
And to let you in on a little secret I updated from live 2 to live 5 only recently. I was totally happy with live 2 all these years and 5 is such an improvement that I really don't want to work without it now.

nblazer · Post by **nblazer** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:49 am

lol u can chop up ure brake beats into 1 beat sections and play em out like chopping one up in an mpc??? thats hott, lol the more i talk to u the more i get phsyced for live

claude_young · Post by **claude_young** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:07 am

nblazer wrote:lol u can chop up ure brake beats into 1 beat sections and play em out like chopping one up in an mpc??? thats hott, lol the more i talk to u the more i get phsyced for live

You can chop them up as small as you like. If you have an MPC you can use it as a controller for the Impulse sampler which has 8 Slots for samples. But you can have as many of them as your processor can handle so it far outweighs the working process in the MPC. I used to use the MPC as well and this process is much quicker and easier to backup. Just save your live song. You don't need recycle or any other app. Live is the ultimate production tool. Just chop the beats in the arranger which works like logics arranger as you zoom close in you get a finer grid so you can chop the parts wherever you like. Than just drag the samples into the Impulse slots and bang, instant MPC like action but with far more FX possibilities.

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:08 am

claude_young wrote:I have been using Logic (since version 3) and Live (since version 1) for quite some time now and they are fantastic together. It really forms the ultimate toolbox for any kind of production. Here are a few suggestions for use.

1. Using Rewire you can sync live with logic. I use this to quickly build complex beats, backing tracks and atmospheres that you just cant create as quickly in Logic. I then bounce these down using Logics bounce function on the master mixers output. Of course I know many people who just work at the same tempo and export the audio from Live into Logic.

2. As a logic user you no doubt love the environment layers as much as I do. Live has gone one better by presenting a very easy and logical routing system in Live. They have almost all the tools you can find in Logics environment - Chord Makers - Random Velocity - Pitch adjustment, the works. I find it much quicker to build free flowing midi processes in Live 5. I then may use the results in Logic. They are pretty much totally interchangeable but Live is so intuitive that I'm using it more and more every day.

3. If your using a Mac you can download Soundflower and run the audio from your Logic session into Live. Allowing you to create amazing arrangements and Jam sessions in Live. I use a small app called midi clock to sync them together effectively creating a reverse rewire situation. Live as the master Logic as thew slave.

4. The Live Simpler & Impulse samplers are probably my favorite samplers in the world. I was a big fan of the ESX but these machines while not having a lot of the same functions all you to create things you could not normally create so quickly in Logic.

I could go on and on but in parting I would say definitely have a look at Live 5, its an amazing achievement in software programming. Smart, sexy and amazingly intuitive. Logic is more like a university course and if you have put in the time you can get amazing results. But Live is just so easy to use and has all the tools to give you a more spontaneous workflow.

Good luck and hope you have a serious look at Live 5!

Hi. If there are two things in llife I am awful at, they are Calculus and Logic Pro 7. I was wondering if (since you are considerably well spoken, and eager to communicate about your workings between these two programs) how exactly you get midi pipe and soundflower to communicate with Logic. In fact, if you can document the whole process, I would gladly spill a 40oz in your honor, on several occasisions in the future!

I would really llike to use Logic pro 7 more often, as it is a force to be reckoned with. I really appreciate the University analogy. I feel like I know where you are coming from on this one, and I would really like to understand how you are achieving your workflow.

Thanks- someone whose post count in the osx.audio group could be a lot higher by now, if it weren't for a few details (like stability, and ADD.)

claude_young · Post by **claude_young** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:34 am

LOFA wrote: Hi. If there are two things in llife I am awful at, they are Calculus and Logic Pro 7. I was wondering if (since you are considerably well spoken, and eager to communicate about your workings between these two programs) how exactly you get midi pipe and soundflower to communicate with Logic. In fact, if you can document the whole process, I would gladly spill a 40oz in your honor, on several occasisions in the future!

I would really llike to use Logic pro 7 more often, as it is a force to be reckoned with. I really appreciate the University analogy. I feel like I know where you are coming from on this one, and I would really like to understand how you are achieving your workflow.

Thanks- someone whose post count in the osx.audio group could be a lot higher by now, if it weren't for a few details (like stability, and ADD.)

Its a very simple process. The only thing I can say is I don't use midi pipe. I use a program called midi clock. You can find it here:

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/16812

First I start Midi Clock (its the master).

In Logic you select soundflower as the audio output instead of the sound card. In live you select an audio channel and make sure it receives its input from soundflower. Both programs must be setup to receive clock from the MidiClock App. On MidiClock (app) you set the appropriate tempo and start the thing running. Both apps should now be in sync with audio flowing from Logic to Live. I use this method to record audio only. Midi files can be dragged and dropped directly once exported from Logic to Live and vice versa.

I don't normally post on boards but if I can help someone out and I have some experience in something I'm more than willing to share the info.

Its a really simple process. Give it a try and enjoy the 40.
regards.

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:37 am

I can see the soundflower 16 channel in my system preferences though it won't show up as an app. in spotlight. Soundflower bed does though. As long my system sees it I feel like I should be fine, but I wish I could see an icon for the app. itself.

On the logic side of things:
Where should I select it as an audio device?

I have gone to Audio preferences and I see only built in audio, fw1884, and agregate device. Is this the right location? Does it seem that it is not being picked up?

I will try setup manager again, and tinker some more. Perhaps, as long as my agregate device is seeing it, I should be able to go through sound flower this way? Perhaps there will be more latency though?!

Thanks again. If you are more comforatble talking about this through PM's just tell me.
I REALLY appreciate your patience and help.

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:39 am

Stop the press! Setup manager sees it now...
I will post back shortly!

claude_young · Post by **claude_young** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:58 am

LOFA wrote:Stop the press! Setup manager sees it now...
I will post back shortly!

No problem my friend.
Soundflower acts as a virtual audio host. You only have to look for it in your audio driver section of the software you want to use. It should always be available like your internal card.

In Logic (an im doing this from memory) you go to the preferences and look for audio hardware and drivers - hold on ill have a quick look:

yes audio hardware and drivers section. there you select soundflower 2ch or 16ch. then in Live just look for soundflower 2ch as your input and you should be set. In regards to latency it depends on how much processing power you have but the tempo should be the same so you can adjust your setback with the audio track delay in logic or within the clip after its recorded. As long as you get a good take it should loop fine. You can also compensate for this in Logic using several methods. Check the logic manual for track delay insert plugins. It should explain everything but as long as your tempos the same you can tighten the audio result no problem. Live has track delays on each channel so you can easily compensate for any latency.

Sometimes I use this method on my broken powerbook that only has 640mb of Ram / 867 Processor so anything larger should be a piece of cake. The goal is to get your audio flowing and even on this setup i can transfer a track at a time no problem.
Hope this helps.

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:03 am

I have to try thi sagin in a couple of days. I can't find soundflower in my LIve audio channel, though I have succesfully sent midi clock to Logic.

Once I am through with my finals on thursday I will jump back into this.

Thank you again.

Ian
edit- just read your post- I will throw in a few more minutes! thanks!

claude_young · Post by **claude_young** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:11 am

LOFA wrote:I have to try thi sagin in a couple of days. I can't find soundflower in my LIve audio channel, though I have succesfully sent midi clock to Logic.

Once I am through with my finals on thursday I will jump back into this.

Thank you again.

Ian
edit- just read your post- I will throw in a few more minutes! thanks!

Hi Ian,

If you check you input routing on any Live audio channel you should see you internal sound card input - in the pulldown menu you will also find the soundflower inputs. select the sundflower inputs (same as the logic outputs) and you should have it.

You must have logic running with soundflower as the audio output for your soundflower inputs to appear in live.

Im not that smart and like to do things as simple as possible so I'm sure you will work this out.

Kindest regards