Cubase SX 3 vs. Ableton Live 5

zyx · Post by **zyx** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:01 am

Im just curious which is better for a setup with one synth Yamaha CS2x and Roland Mc 303

i want to run them both into a sequencer and record sound effects from them, i have a mixer Roland DJ 2000 works fine for audio plus effects

I like Ableton Live because of the audio strech and sync feature, but i seem to be having trouble with the midi hook ups

Im thinking to switch back to cubase sx but its complicated to use...
im kind of lost any advice would be great

djfm · Post by **djfm** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:12 am

you have to decide for your self .Nobody can make ur mind up i had the same problem
both are good pieces if kit .
Cubase also has the audio strech fuction. imo ableton is a little cramped were as cubase you have a lot of diffrent menus
there is good and bad about both
dont just ditch ableton because of midi issues work through them
thats my 2 cents

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:45 am

Have to confess that I would advise you to go with both if you get the chance!

Rather than Cubase though I personally have Sonar 5 PE as a big linear host. I prefer Ableton Live 5 for most stuff, and call it my main host. But Sonar is mighty useful for some stuff which Live doesn't yet do.

I think the same can be said for Cubase SX3, which strikes me as being pretty similar to Sonar 5 PE in many respects (although I presonally find Cubase more complex/harder to get around, Routing/mixing/video and surround are all generally considered better in Sonar. and the instruments and effects in Sonar are way superior to Cubase's imho).

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:53 pm

Well allow me to jump in here being a recent Cubase purchaser - I wish i would have saved my duckets and swooped up Sonar 5 producers edition but that's niether here nor there, feel me

Cubase is dope for midi stuff - just doing midi'd soft synths and what not - plus some plugs fit right in the socket so nice - VST folder - cool, close the folder make some room

However I'll be the first to admit I'm not very gifted in writting actual music - I can do stuff to audio, I can find funky beats and I can sort of arrange (but that's a work in progress) so i use loops, loops, and more loops - viola - LIVE

The looping in Cubase is kind of weak compared to Live - it's not drag and drop and you can't actually loop the loop i.e. Pro-Tools 7 where you can just grab the end and stretch, Control K to repeat is kind of 2001 - you can all your sounds together before you import into Cubase Via Live but then, I'm at this point, why don't I just use Live

And since I've gotten Cubase I haven't finished anything from beginning to end - Live I've done a couple things - but I have made some tight loops with Reaktor and what not in Cubase to use in Live so that's cool

However the plugs in Cubase are really lame compared to what you get 'stock' in Ableton.

You can rewire Live in Cubase to get your loops good, but then I'm just kind of like why don't I just use Live - hello

I started doing a strictly Midi track last night in Cubase, we'll see how it turns out

it's nice to have both but honestly all you need is Live - that's it

Just Live - and pay no mind they're German and started another "camp" in Berlin, if a train comes to your town don't get on it

later

a

MarkH · Post by **MarkH** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:57 pm

djadonis206 wrote: The looping in Cubase is kind of weak compared to Live - it's not drag and drop and you can't actually loop the loop i.e. Pro-Tools 7 where you can just grab the end and stretch, Control K to repeat is kind of 2001 - you can all your sounds together before you import into Cubase Via Live but then, I'm at this point, why don't I just use Live

There are 3 different ways to loop the loop in Cubase.

1) CTRL+D to diplicate the part

2) CTRL+K to copy x number of time. This is useful because if you check the "shared copies" button, any change to the Master clip is changed in all the duplicates. See, it ain't so 2001!

3) Hold ALT and drag from the bottom right corner of the clip and drag to the right to continuously repeat.

It would be great if Live had all these features. One thing I hate about Live is when you had a phrase in Cycle Record and stop recording in the middle of the phrase, Live breaks it into 2 seperate clips. Cubase keeps it as a single clip and you can even stack each take, select just bits from each take, then consolidate into a single clip. If you're not doing midi and just throwing audio phrases together to make a song I suppose Live might be better for you, but in the end that's an extremely limited way to work.

BTW, you can drag audio or midi on to the Cubase arrange window. Not sure why you can't do it on your system.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:38 pm

MarkH wrote: 3) Hold ALT and drag from the bottom right corner of the clip and drag to the right to continuously repeat.

BTW, you can drag audio or midi on to the Cubase arrange window. Not sure why you can't do it on your system.

I never knew that - that's cool you can alt drag to repeat (as long as I want?)

That helps

I can drag and drop into Cubase but unless the loop is already the right tempo I have to use the audio definition tool or is there a way to just drop the clip and have it match instantly - that'd be cool

thanks Mark

later

a

scifish · Post by **scifish** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:04 pm

djadonis206 wrote:Just Live - and pay no mind they're German and started another "camp" in Berlin, if a train comes to your town don't get on it

LMAO

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:35 pm

Just to chime in (and sorry if I sound like a broken record, or for you younger kids, like a skipping CD), but working in Live in an entirely new paradigm. To call it a looper is not even hitting the tip of the iceberg. Yes, SX and Sonar are great linear sequencers and yes their midi functions are superior to Live. I've used both and have loved both. Having said that, now I find that Live's midi functions are enough for essential music-making (note on/off, velocity, parameter changes, midi CC). Add to that Live's midi effects (which are unique and way more powerful than some of the SX and Sonar effects) and I don't miss midi capabilities in the big sequencers at all. (Although a line tool to create smooth velocity ramps would be really nice).

So going back to the first post and thinking about what you stated...SX has a LOT of clutter, and it is indeed more difficult simply because it has so many options and features. You might find yourself very comfortable with it once you get going. But making music in Live is an entirely different way of thinking, and you come up with ideas that you didn't know you had when you start going non-linear in your creative approach.

My recommendation is to create a song (keep it simple, say 8 tracks at most) in SX and then create the same song in Live and force yourself to do it in the Session window with clips. And when you do it in Live, just play around with lauching different clips and differnt effects in realtime. Then compare not only the end results but also your creative process and how you enjoyed it. You will quickly see the advantages and limitations of each system, and you will also figure out which system was more fun and more productive.

Then post the songs here, so we can debate endlessly about which audio engine is superior. I miss that thread...

radeon · Post by **radeon** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:15 pm

djadonis206 wrote: I'll be the first to admit I'm not very gifted in writting actual music I can find funky beats and I can sort of arrange (but that's a work in progress) so i use loops, loops, and more loops - viola - LIVE

a

This is good to know because I thought you knew what you talked about but I had a feeling something was wrong when I read you posts. I see now I mistake you for a musicain when you are a pre set loop player.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:22 pm

radeon wrote:
djadonis206 wrote: I'll be the first to admit I'm not very gifted in writting actual music I can find funky beats and I can sort of arrange (but that's a work in progress) so i use loops, loops, and more loops - viola - LIVE

a
This is good to know because I thought you knew what you talked about but I had a feeling something was wrong when I read you posts. I see now I mistake you for a musicain when you are a pre set loop player.

I wonder if English isn't your first language, becuase what you just said sounded rather rude. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just write poorly.

radeon · Post by **radeon** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:29 pm

I am Greek and now live in uk. We Greek have problems with English writing. I speak it much better than I write it. Im no rude, I say what I see. I thought he was profesional recording engineer I dont know why I think its somethink I read in one of his postings. I dont mean rude I mean he is not musician. Playing loops of opther peoples music is not so creative I think. I am sorry if you offend me.

merry xmas

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:53 pm

radeon wrote:
This is good to know because I thought you knew what you talked about but I had a feeling something was wrong when I read you posts. I see now I mistake you for a musicain when you are a pre set loop player.

What you said was not very nice - I sit down in front of my computer just like you and try to do the best I can with what I can

The difference is I don't hate on people

a

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:58 pm

djadonis206 wrote:
radeon wrote:
This is good to know because I thought you knew what you talked about but I had a feeling something was wrong when I read you posts. I see now I mistake you for a musicain when you are a pre set loop player.
What you said was not very nice - I sit down in front of my computer just like you and try to do the best I can with what I can

The difference is I don't hate on people

a

Just ignore him dude. Like he said, he's Greek, which I guess is carte blanche to be a dick. I'll make sure I tell all my nice Greek friends that they need to all be dicks now...

radeon · Post by **radeon** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:46 pm

djadonis206 wrote:
radeon wrote:
This is good to know because I thought you knew what you talked about but I had a feeling something was wrong when I read you posts. I see now I mistake you for a musicain when you are a pre set loop player.
What you said was not very nice - I sit down in front of my computer just like you and try to do the best I can with what I can

The difference is I don't hate on people

a

Dont be silly i dont hate you. I told that my writings is not good as I speak english. I say again when i read a old post you write i wonder how you come to a idea so its no making sense i wondered. you say you mix loops to make music. This is ok and good cool. When I read this I understand what I think before when you were writing about drums in another post I think t was strange. You work with loops so now I understand. So I also dont think is so creative. yes if make your own loops but just take from other music or cds is not so creative. I am very sorry if I upset you it is not what I want to happen. Maybe you should try and create your own sound and music. I come to the reason when I use loops from cd and other places I dont get writing my music so good. My own loops fit best always. I dont know why so?

Good Things to all people

radeon · Post by **radeon** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:46 pm

nebulae wrote:
djadonis206 wrote:
radeon wrote:
This is good to know because I thought you knew what you talked about but I had a feeling something was wrong when I read you posts. I see now I mistake you for a musicain when you are a pre set loop player.
What you said was not very nice - I sit down in front of my computer just like you and try to do the best I can with what I can

The difference is I don't hate on people

a
Just ignore him dude. Like he said, he's Greek, which I guess is carte blanche to be a dick. I'll make sure I tell all my nice Greek friends that they need to all be dicks now...

Fuck you Texas bigot