Anticipating the beat

jezar · Post by **jezar** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:30 pm

Hi Forum Folks.

I'm basically a Cubase SX chap, but I'm finding that now that I want to record and mix my own material (as opposed to someone elses), Cubase just gets in the way of things, whereas Ableton Live! lets me get on with creative work.

Plus it's FUN to use, and doesn't get me in a bad mood, like Cubase does all the time.

One thing I'd like to do with loops - which I can't yet seem to figure out if it is possible - is to have some (particularly vocals) ANTICIPATE the beat, notwithstanding Global Quantize options.

For example, if I have (e.g) a backing vocal, where the words IN CAPITALS land on the beat, thus:

(if you) GO out toNIGHT and you're FEELing allRIGHT (etc.)

I need the loop to come in a fraction early, so that "if you" doesn't get chopped off - i.e. I don't want it to have to start on "GO" in order to be in time.

In Cubase SX, you'd do this by aligning the cursor on the word "GO" and selecting "Set SNAP POINT" from the Audio menu. Thereafter, when you drag the clip around with "Snap to grid" (i.e. quantise) switched on, "GO" is still on the beat, but the "if you" always pokes out correctly just before the clip starts.

Is something similar possible in Ableton Live?

Thanks in advance,
Jezar.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:17 pm

If I catch what you're asking...

With warp markers you can adjust how fast parts of a clip play, in other words you can align the vocals around the beat by sliding the nearest warp marker left or right.

I use that technique to get clips to mesh together in a tight groove, sometimes things sound better ahead, sometimes behind, sometimes they just weren't using a clicktrack and the beat wanders.

Yeah, Live is amazing...

jezar · Post by **jezar** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:27 pm

Hiya.

Thanks for the response.

No, "timing" or synchronisation is not the issue. Everything is at the same BPM.

It's merely that - as is so common in ALL music - some phrases or loops simply start BEFORE the beat, i.e:

"get DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

(where the "DOWN" is on the down-beat, and the "get" is on the eighth-note before)

I want to be able to trigger this kind of thing - EVEN when quantize is set to something as "chunky" as four BARS (since most musical transitions are a multiple of this order)

Any ideas?

Jezar.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:02 pm

this is a common request.
the answer is not a simple thing, but dependent on situation,

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30944&

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:29 pm

oh, gotcha, I'm dealing with some of the same issues.

There's the loop bars, the start flag and the end flag. Put the start flag a full measure ahead of the loop, then draw a volume envelope to mute out the part you don't want so the vocal starts just ahead of the beat.

jezar · Post by **jezar** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:24 pm

Wow...

That's really "brute-force", I was hoping for something as elegant as a swan.

Darn good point though... You've definately out-done Jezar in the "lateral-thinking" department.

Cheers, bud.

Regards,
Jezar.

Inductive · Post by **Inductive** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:48 pm

I do the same thing (move the start point) but pad the begining of the sample so that there is a perfect measure sized break at the begining, then you just trigger it exactly a measure early instead of like, thinking about it. You can do it with warp markers (so it basicly plays the sample realy slow to fill the measure before playing it normal speed from wherever the first real beat lands. Or you can edit the sample in a sample editor, do a little math to get the length right, or just retrim it in live. That is a bit vague, if you need more specific instructions send me a private message or something