Which DAW to use?

System6music · Post by **System6music** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:39 am

Ok, this is probablly standard, but I am pulling my hair out here.

I am a long time FL studio user and a big fan of their program. I recently switched over to Mac, and have loved every second of it.

I am currently torn between pro tools, live, logic, and digital performer.

I do probablly 99% sequencing with softsynths. This is going to be a semi professional studio open to the public though and I imagine I will have some sessions where all I am doing is like 24-30 audio tracks with plugins and automation.

Also I really want to use an Imac core duo 2 with 2 GBs of ram instead of getting a mac pro, although I will/can if I must.

On protools, I don't really like the use our interfaces or m-audios only sorta outlook.

I tried using logic and it seemed really really akward and ugly.

DP I cannot try because they don't have a downloadable version but I have a friend who uses DP and has said nothing but good things. (he's not much help other than that though because he's using DP 3 on a superold mac and know nothing about the newer versions.)

Can anyone give me a good solid reason on why ableton live doesn't make a good DAW software for multitracking? We all know its midi and live functions, but seriously I ran the demo project on my mac mini at like 128 samples buffer on the internal card and it was smooth as can be.

anyways any real advice would be helpful. There a bit more info below if you want more details.

thanks,

Stitches

1. I teach digital audio tech at a local university, so I'm no newbie. I guess I'm just really picky.

2. I mainly write industrial music myself so plugins and track count are important, but I don't mind freezing to save resources.

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:53 am

The only thing against Live as a multitracker is that because Live is always "time stretching" under the hood - waiting for you to change tempo on-the-fly - it uses more CPU that a "standard" DAW such as Logic/DP/PT. So you won't get as high a maximum total track-count in Live as the others.

That said, If you are happy with the performance in the Live demo, that bodes well. Just make sure you load up a realistic real-world test project, i.e. record lots of LONG tracks simultaneously, then do lots of overdubs, add plug-ins, and get a feel for editing / automating / MIDI sequencing etc. If it all works happily for you - get Live.

HTH

forge · Post by **forge** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:27 am

Pitch Black wrote:The only thing against Live as a multitracker is that because Live is always "time stretching" under the hood - waiting for you to change tempo on-the-fly - it uses more CPU that a "standard" DAW such as Logic/DP/PT. So you won't get as high a maximum total track-count in Live as the others.

That said, If you are happy with the performance in the Live demo, that bodes well. Just make sure you load up a realistic real-world test project, i.e. record lots of LONG tracks simultaneously, then do lots of overdubs, add plug-ins, and get a feel for editing / automating / MIDI sequencing etc. If it all works happily for you - get Live.

HTH

you can switch off the default time stretching in the preferences

just select "unwarped one shot" as the default option in the preferences and it will all be recorded as normal audio

System6music · Post by **System6music** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:38 am

well i know garage band is kind of a new app, its certinally no sony acid, but in that prog, 4 tracks and I'm done.

now working with midi in realtime with live I wouldn't have any stretching problems right? Same with audio multitrack?

This should only matter if i drag and drop samples correct.

I'm thinking an Imac, with 2 gbs ram, and lives track freeze function should be plenty. (hoping anyways). I don't own them yet but the softsynths I'm looking at are DFH, Stylus RMX, Kontakt, MX4, Mach 5, Battery, FM8, Massive, Guitar rig 2, some sort of choir/ orchestral synth ect......

I'm really into pattern based sequencing, and on the "audio export" of my DFH it will only be 5 tracks. Kick, snare, hats, cymbals, toms...instead of every peice by itself.

I know its all stipulation, but I don't really have anything to test this with, thats why I am asking for help.

Do any of you have "large" projects I can load on an Imac at work using the demo of live 6?

Thanks,

Stitches

noiseconjecture · Post by **noiseconjecture** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:41 am

I would think in your case Logic is probably the way to go although I do not know Digital Performer. Although I use Live more than Logic now as a DAW I'm not sure it is the easiest choice for general studio work. Also Logic is designed for midi and is apparently the most sophisticated midi sequencer around.
Pro Tools does not have a reputation for doing midi easily. Usually musicians use Logic, engineers use Pro Tools.

This is no criticism of Live though, as I said it is now my favourite DAW.

wilxon · Post by **wilxon** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:48 am

If your system will be used by others i would go with Logic, because its a standard that everyone is familiar with.

Logic/Cubase 4

Both pretty similar in terms of standard.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:54 am

i use Live for multitracking.

When i need PT compatibility, i just use the multitrack render in v.6 and import those files into PT and save the session.

I use Live because i can get around it faster than other applications. There are a few less steps to doing some very basic stuff with Live than in Logic or PT. I haven't used Cubase since i owned a K6-II.

just my $0.02
use what you are comfy with, they're all capable.

System6music · Post by **System6music** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:22 pm

Thanks for the info so far.

I will always export as .wav for customers so compatibility isn't an issue.

I like to work quickly. When working on my own music, ideas fly at me and I lose them if it takes me 20 mins to do some simple task.

Alot of people also talk about the poerful midi optionsof other progs, but once again, midi entry, automation, and effects and i'm pretty happy.

2 questions.

a. Do you think 2gb of RAM will be enough on a new imac core duo?
b. Does anyone have some sort of project they can send me so I can check out the strain on my current system?

Thanks again,

Stitches

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:59 pm

Also, if you use AutoHotKey scripts, you can really minimize your edit steps in the arrage view with some combo keys and mouse-wheel scrolling. With these scripts, Live becomes as easy as Acid or Cubase to do lots and lots of linear Arrange-view edits, like you would in any other DAW.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:00 pm

One other thing - Live's routing is second to none. I can't speak for Pro Tools, as I don't know it, but there isn't another application out there that makes the inputs and outputs as easy as Live (except maybe Reason, but then you're in a closed universe).

CWoodOne · Post by **CWoodOne** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:19 pm

I think Logic is the all-around most powerful DAW. But you kind of have to have an idea of what you want in the beginning for a really efficient workflow.
With Live, you pretty much just start the computer and go.

Logic has notation also, important to some, as well as some incredible flexibility in routing, as well as some very high quality plugins.

Digital Performer is good also, very ideosyncratic though, TERRIBLE notation editor, the most time consuming work flow of all the DAWs.

jesso · Post by **jesso** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:54 pm

thats somthing i want to know too...
how does the 2.33 imac with 2 gigs perform? I would imagine its pretty fast, but i can just about stretch to a mac pro.... what would you suggest? should the hard drive be upgraded to a 7200?

I run pretty big protools sessions and live 5 sessions, i like to be able to have a couple of vsts open at any time, my g4 gets a bit weak at the knee unless i economise.

CWoodOne · Post by **CWoodOne** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:01 pm

jesso wrote:thats somthing i want to know too...
how does the 2.33 imac with 2 gigs perform? I would imagine its pretty fast, but i can just about stretch to a mac pro.... what would you suggest? should the hard drive be upgraded to a 7200?

I run pretty big protools sessions and live 5 sessions, i like to be able to have a couple of vsts open at any time, my g4 gets a bit weak at the knee unless i economise.

It's hard to get satisfactory results with disk streaming if the drive is not 7200, particularly with big drum libraries that go out to disk a lot to get different velocity samples..... at a pretty fast pace. When I had an iMac
I used an external FW hard drive which was ok. With the MacPro and 4 disk drives, I don't know how I ever survived the iMac!

But I have lots of disk streaming apps -- Ivory, BFD, Battery, etc...

wilxon · Post by **wilxon** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:29 pm

I just got my copy of Cubase Studio 4,

i have only played aroud with it for 20 mins but so far i cant see a lot different to SL3.

The channel edit function is loads better though. More inserts and sends, and much easier to use the parametric EQ.

The new VSTi3's are cool, halion 1 and prologue (good for dirty bass sounds) and some of the new VSt 3 plugins are OK two.

Will probably say more after the weekend.

Not as a big improvement as LIVE is this year.

cheers, just needed to sound off a little.

CWoodOne · Post by **CWoodOne** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:36 pm

wilxon wrote:I just got my copy of Cubase Studio 4,
i have only played aroud with it for 20 mins but so far i cant see a lot different to SL3.

The channel edit function is loads better though. More inserts and sends, and much easier to use the parametric EQ.

The new VSTi3's are cool, halion 1 and prologue (good for dirty bass sounds) and some of the new VSt 3 plugins are OK two.

Will probably say more after the weekend.

Not as a big improvement as LIVE is this year.

cheers, just needed to sound off a little.

Look what's NOT there... older VST's, older VI's, etc....

but the instrument tracks and presets are great