MacBook Pro: 7200 vs 5400 rpm drive

kidbeyond · Post by **kidbeyond** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:17 am

Howdy all, Kid B here.

I'm planning to buy a new MacBook Pro.
(My current live rig is a PowerBook G4.)
I've got some questions about hard drive
speed.

I want the 15-inch version, but Apple doesn't
offer a 7200-rpm drive with it -- only 5400.
The 17-incher does have a 7200rpm drive,
but it's a larger machine than I want.

I really want as much of an onstage boost
from this new machine as possible -- more
tracks and effects, less hiccuping onstage
when I'm pushing the track and effect load
to the limit, shorter load time for ALS's, etc.
That's why I figure 7200 has to be better
than 5400.

These tests, however...
http://barefeats.com/mbcd7.html
suggest that while a 7200rpm drive is faster
at reading and writing while empty, a 5400-
rpm drive might actually beat it when both
are filled with lots of data.

So, my question: How much does the increased
hard drive speed really buy me in Live?

You can see the kind of stuff I do onstage at
http://www.ableton.com/kid-beyond ...
Basically, I record a bunch of loops of live audio
into Live, one after the other, and run them
through lots of effects (including sound-on-sound
loopers like Augustus Loop). I usually record
just one loop at a time, but occasionally I record
two loops simultaneously. By the end of a song
I might have about 12 or so loops running --
which, with all the effects I run things through,
sometimes causes Ableton to choke up. Each
of my songs is a separate ALS, so reducing
the load time between ALS's is a big priority.

Does the increased hard drive speed have
much effect in a setup like this? Or, if I get
the fastest CPU and the most RAM, will 7200
vs. 5400 not matter so much?

If the performance bump is significant, I'll get
the 17-inch MBP, or get a third-party HD upgrade
for the 15-incher and void my warranty.

Thanks in advance,

Kid B

p.s. I know I could go with an external drive,
but for now I want to keep my onstage rig as
self-contained as possible, and minimize the
number of potential points of failure...

ikke · Post by **ikke** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:23 am

for the real power you pc man

glu · Post by **glu** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:54 am

the ableton performance thread has a comparison somewhere where a mbp runs around 5% or so less CPU with a 7200 RPM drive than one with 5400 drive...

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:58 am

Yeah, 5400 should be more than enough for what you're doing. I've seen the videos of your stuff (nice BTW), and the new MacBook Pro will fly for that type of application. No worries at all, HD's are much faster than most people here seem to give them credit for

Even a 4200 RPM drive will give you DOZENS of track with no problem.

Also, it seems to me that the load times are far more dependant on the effects you're using, more than anything else.

prospect · Post by **prospect** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:08 am

The question here is where Ableton is reading the clips from.
The memory or the hard drive?

For example in software samplers (such as EXS-24, Battery, etc...) the samples are triggered from the memory, NOT from the hard-drive.

However in DAW's (Logic, Cubase) the "tracks" are read off the drive.

I use a Macbook Pro and I put in a 7200 RPM h/d because I was getting constant "Disk Too Slow" errors in Logic.

So if Live is reading the clips from the h/d (as opposed to reading from RAM) there is no question, get a 7200rpm drive. This is ESPECIALLY recommended if you are recording AND playing back clips on stage.

I wouldn't risk it.

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:09 am

AFAIK these new HD are much better. I decided to try the 5400 first, so far didnt notice any problems. If starts to choke, will get 7200, and the original will be used for backups and whatever portable use
I dont care what manufacturer say, they will never find out. Had it before, new model came out after a week so I had option to swap miy notebook, got a bit nervous, since they took the "old" one to examination but obviously didnt see anything.
I understand their point, most of user are not too smart and skilled so to be on safer side they say that to scare potential upgraders, not to say that Mac, actually all companies gain extra overcharging for upgrades of HD or RAM, often taking 50-100% extra.
P.S. It depends how many tracks you do live, from what I remember from the Messe not more then a dozen. Just try with at least 4 more then you would ever do.
If you have something preprepared you could load those into RAM, but you always start blank dont you ?

iterate · Post by **iterate** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:10 am

While it's not as easy to swap out a hard drive in a MacBook Pro as it is in a MacBook (which is stupid easy), it's not that bad. Try the 5400 RPM drive and see if it works for you. You should find out pretty quick if the answer is "NO." If it doesn't work, just swap out the drive for a 7200rpm version. The 7200 rpm laptop drives are really coming down in price, and (like someone said above), you can put the 5400 rpm drive in an external enclosure and use it for a backup drive.

Here's an article about this very subject, with links to instructions:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=325

Hope that helps!

Steven

kidbeyond · Post by **kidbeyond** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:00 am

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I really appreciate it.

Also, it seems to me that the load times are far more dependant on the effects you're using, more than anything else.

Yeah, I guess that's true -- for a Live set without many clips to load, I'd guess it'd be more of a CPU/RAM issue. I wonder if anyone has done tests on what really affects load time (e.g., Number of clips? Number of effects? Number of tracks? Does the size of the *currently* open ALS have effect?).

Kid B