Reaktor or Reason with Live 6?

Naive Teen Idol · Post by **Naive Teen Idol** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:01 pm

Been thinking about ways to expand the sound palette I have. So, the question is: do you buy Reason 3.0 for $400 or Reaktor 5 for $500?

Reaktor:
The Pro's — Great reputation, huge online library of presets, incredibly precise control, VST-compliant.
The Con's — Expensive, huge system resource hog, big learning curve.

Reason:
The Pro's — Great sounds in 3.0, CPU efficient, great interface, good price, good sampler.
The Con's — Crummy sequencer, can't be used as VST (thus can't save in racks), closed system.

Both are good, of course. But I get the sense that Live 6, with racks and what not, has caught up to Reaktor in a lot of ways and now has the capability of generating a lot of similar sounds to Reaktor (and more efficiently). And so maybe my real question is: has Live 6 made Reaktor redundant at this point?

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:19 pm

Hi,

You're comparing Apples to Oranges... and Plums.

They're all completely different. I have Live 6 and Reaktor 5 and would never buy Reason - I find it to be one of the most un-inspiring programs ever made. But that's me. I bought Reaktor 'cause I wanted a modular softsynth/sampler. That's what I got - but I haven't really dwelled into it. I used to own a Clavia G2 (and a Micro before that), and I'd love a modular VST with the simplicity of the Clavias. But Reaktor's a complex beast - not necessarily hard, but time consuming. On the other hand the library alone is worth the asking price.

If you're thinking sound sources - Reaktor has got it covered (VA, FM, Granular, Sampling, Additive, FX...). Sure Reason is simple, but no fun. I'd rather get a bunch of freeware VSTs to use in Live then spend 400 dollares on Reason.

On the other hand... If I, when I started out about 10 years ago, knew what I know today - I'd go with Live only... maybe with Sampler. Add a nice audio interface and a controller of your choice. That's more than enough for me nowadays... Simplicity rules! Nice workflow - good ergonomics!

Good luck with your descicions...
/Mikael

DJ VAKIS · Post by **DJ VAKIS** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:20 pm

I would go for reaktor,it is powerfull and very dificult.
Reason it is also good but i don't like it very much,i have tryed it but it is not for me.
But also you can use only Live6 if you can make racks you can make simple and complex sounds out of it.
Just download the demo versions and try both,you will get an idea wich one is good for you.

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:07 pm

I must have to agree with the posters above. Reason is a neat self contained DAW and if you are used to working in that environment, rewiring into Live is great.

But if you come from the other angle, you already have a DAW you like, what has Reason to offer? Two synths, a drum sample trigger, two different samplers and a loop player. You can't integrate those into Live like you can with VSTs and you would probably become frustrated.

I would personally buy Reaktor any day over Reason. Or you could spend the money on some VSTs if you have any specific needs.

XPM · Post by **XPM** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:22 pm

Reaktor is absolutley fantastic, well worth the price but incredibly time consuming to learn.
Reason is also great, many people underestimate the power of it's routing possibilities. It's not just two synths, two samplers e.t.c. it's all those things and more.
I love both programs, but tend to find myself using reason more often as it's not so daunting to use. Sometimes having less options is better for the creative flow, sometimes lots of options can spark a creative flow.
If you are new to music making, and don't have loads of time on your hands, try reason. If you have plenty of time an patience, try reaktor.
Whatever you decide you will be getting a quality bit of kit.
Enjoy.
Steve

aisling · Post by **aisling** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:43 pm

Just like your dp vs logic thread.....it's so subjective.
It comes down to where are you at in your musical development? Are you just getting going (2 years or so under your belt) that you have the time to learn (2 years) and master the best software out there, Or are you more into the game (6 or so years) where you need to be creative and not always teching/studying.

If time is no issue and you still have "curiosity", learn reaktor hands down!!!
But if your in a flow of making tracks from start to finnish, and tech stuff ruins the vibe, use Reason. There are plenty of ways to make the audio quality in Reason sound pro (not like ver 1/2) and your making music in 5 minutes!

In my opinion, you got to have a check and balance measure for gear envy. Before you you know it 2 years can go by and you never really even accomplished anything except some software updates......

With that said Battery3 and a good soft synth (of your choice) combined with Live is the way i'd go today.......

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:04 pm

Michael-SW wrote:I must have to agree with the posters above. Reason is a neat self contained DAW and if you are used to working in that environment, rewiring into Live is great.

But if you come from the other angle, you already have a DAW you like, what has Reason to offer? Two synths, a drum sample trigger, two different samplers and a loop player. You can't integrate those into Live like you can with VSTs and you would probably become frustrated.

I would personally buy Reaktor any day over Reason. Or you could spend the money on some VSTs if you have any specific needs.

Reason is not a DAW, just to be clear. It doesn not record audio. It is what is called, a Music Production instrument.

One of the common benefits (aside from the qualitative or subjective opinions on the massive sound options you have with Reason) is its relatively low CPU usage for what it does and its stability.

Workflow aside, lots of people use Rewire to bypass the sequencing engine and use the DAW of their choice for that.

Both are great environments, and like all things, comes down to your preferred way of working and how you work when creating music.

rob.

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:16 pm

When you buy Reaktor, you get a great set of instruments (etc) with it. There is also the Reaktor user library which has any number of pre made ensembles.

It is not like you have to get your hand dirty to enjoy Reaktor.

rbmonosylabik · Post by **rbmonosylabik** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:34 pm

There are two things I don't like about Reason

1- The workflow can be too time consuming (This cable goes here, this one goes there, fuck, where was this cable supposed to go? I don't like the sound anymore, time for 15 minutes of cable rearranging, WTF is this mess?)

2- It's too hard to make something in Reason that sounds unique. Sure you can, but it's hard when everyone is using the same tools. Rewire opens a lot of possibilities, but it's still too time consuming trying to get rid of the Reason sound.

I love opening stuff up, seeing how they work and if in my possibilities, modify stuff to my liking. That's why I like Reaktor so much, but that's just me and my 2 ¢.

rbmonosylabik · Post by **rbmonosylabik** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:35 pm

With that said, I don't use either much anymore if at all.

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:59 pm

rbmonosylabik wrote:There are two things I don't like about Reason

1- The workflow can be too time consuming (This cable goes here, this one goes there, fuck, where was this cable supposed to go? I don't like the sound anymore, time for 15 minutes of cable rearranging, WTF is this mess?)

2- It's too hard to make something in Reason that sounds unique. Sure you can, but it's hard when everyone is using the same tools. Rewire opens a lot of possibilities, but it's still too time consuming trying to get rid of the Reason sound.

I love opening stuff up, seeing how they work and if in my possibilities, modify stuff to my liking. That's why I like Reaktor so much, but that's just me and my 2 ¢.

you don't have to use the dragging cable metaphor. You can right click outputs and get a menu of where you want to route it to. Easy.

The cables are fun, but not necessary to manually route them via drag and drop if you don't want to.

rob.

Naive Teen Idol · Post by **Naive Teen Idol** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:17 pm

aisling wrote:Just like your dp vs logic thread.....

Oh, man -- I'm getting a rep already.

aisling wrote:It comes down to where are you at in your musical development? Are you just getting going (2 years or so under your belt) that you have the time to learn (2 years) and master the best software out there, Or are you more into the game (6 or so years) where you need to be creative and not always teching/studying.

If time is no issue and you still have "curiosity", learn reaktor hands down!!!
But if your in a flow of making tracks from start to finnish, and tech stuff ruins the vibe, use Reason. There are plenty of ways to make the audio quality in Reason sound pro (not like ver 1/2) and your making music in 5 minutes!

In my opinion, you got to have a check and balance measure for gear envy. Before you you know it 2 years can go by and you never really even accomplished anything except some software updates......

These are all really good questions and points. REALLY good. Basically, I'm far along in the development stage. After tracking a pop record in DP3 a few years ago, I've sort of moved into a more electronic thing recently; I'd been using Reason 2.5 and Live 3 until I decided to go Intel Mac. It's def. slowed down my creative process a bit as I've had to learn Live 6, which is pretty seriously advanced compared to Live 3. So your point about tech stuff is spot on.

I think one thing that folks might be playing down about Reason is its sample-playing capabilities and library; for instance, as I understand it, Reason's library makes Live's EIC kind of redundant. And though I've just played around w/ it in the Reason 3 demo, the Combinator is sort of Reason's Rack — and it's worth mentioning that the sounds they made available (in the demo at least) are of a very high quality. And the combinator mappings allow for some pretty remarkable Rack-esque tweaking.

All that said, I'm thinking twice about it. Frankly, I've never had a computer that could even run Reaktor properly; now I do. And w/o question, one thing I'm struggling a bit w/ is not having a proper sound library to start from. So, thanks for all the advice, peeps...[/quote]

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:35 am

i love reaktor, if only for the fx, which are great, the sample manglers, which are fantastic, and the synths, which often are a little odd but way interesting, the beatboxes, which led me to get rid of all my HW, etc. that is, reaktor's not just a synth, or fx, or sample player, or a beatbox, it's all of them.

i like reason to, it's got some great things going with the combinators, but i much prefer using reaktor as fx in live (find it easier than rewire, all i need).

NorthernMonkey · Post by **NorthernMonkey** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:49 am

Have you considered Zebra 2? Reaktor, as has been mentioned above, is a superb piece of kit but is also a massive time sink. Zebra 2 on the other hand allows a large amount of flexibility as it is also modular but is designed to be easier to use and has great support - NI have a tendency to release products with mediocre manuals and just leave you to get on with it.

nobbystylus · Post by **nobbystylus** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:54 am

Reaktor is so much better in every way.. its got clones of everything that Reason has in the user library, and much weirder more inspirational stuff besides. Plus, if you've got the patience, you can truly build your own stuff. On a modern machine Reaktor is even fairly CPU friendly..

Hands down..