OT: Viva Hugo Chavez

dango · Post by **dango** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:00 am

For anyone interested, here is a great Q & A with Hugo Chavez. It is good to see a leader with his head on straight and a positive agenda.

http://www.brainsturbator.com/index.php ... go_chavez/

UnitedElectric · Post by **UnitedElectric** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:55 am

And we are watching his grip tighten on the throat of Venezuela. From the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6277379.stm

Best part:

Venezuela's National Assembly has given initial approval to a bill granting the president the power to bypass congress and rule by decree for 18 months.

President Hugo Chavez says he wants "revolutionary laws" to enact sweeping political, economic and social changes.

He has said he wants to nationalise key sectors of the economy and scrap limits on the terms a president can serve...

The bill allowing him to enact laws by decree is expected to win final approval easily in the assembly on its second reading on Tuesday.

Just because he's hates Bush doesn't make him a noble ruler. After nationalization of the entire economy, watch out for widespread goods shortages and isolation (and worse) of political enemies. This is a pattern we should recognize from the slaughter of 100 million innocents in the 20th century. Soft Communism is actually forced conformism dressed as revolutionary thought.

dango · Post by **dango** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:17 pm

Me Liking Chavez has nothing to do with the fact that he hates Bush, most of the world hates Bush and I do not admire all of them. (all though I do admit I am glad to see Chavez has some balls and publicly stands up to tyrants like Bush) I like Chavez because at least he is trying to look out for his people and take care of his people. Nobodies perfect, but at least he tries to show the world some actual good human qualities. Unlike others in power who use the world as their toilet and just shit and puke on everyone.

kramerica · Post by **kramerica** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:27 pm

dango wrote:Me Liking Chavez has nothing to do with the fact that he hates Bush, most of the world hates Bush and I do not admire all of them. (all though I do admit I am glad to see Chavez has some balls and publicly stands up to tyrants like Bush) I like Chavez because at least he is trying to look out for his people and take care of his people. Nobodies perfect, but at least he tries to show the world some actual good human qualities. Unlike others in power who use the world as their toilet and just shit and puke on everyone.

He's looking out for his people by taking away their right to vote?

A tyrant's good deeds or personal qualities should not overshadow an objective assessment of whether he's "good for the country". Destroying democracy is a quite clearly bad for the country.

Hitler had great taste in music.

Stalin was very "efficient".

Pinochet make good economic reforms.

Toto kept Yugoslavia from fracturing and sectarian violence.

Saddam Hussein did the same.

See my point?

thelike5 · Post by **thelike5** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:30 pm

dango wrote:Me Liking Chavez has nothing to do with the fact that he hates Bush, most of the world hates Bush and I do not admire all of them. (all though I do admit I am glad to see Chavez has some balls and publicly stands up to tyrants like Bush) I like Chavez because at least he is trying to look out for his people and take care of his people. Nobodies perfect, but at least he tries to show the world some actual good human qualities. Unlike others in power who use the world as their toilet and just shit and puke on everyone.

Troll!

cmcg37 · Post by **cmcg37** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:17 pm

What kind of art and music is coming out of Venezuela right now?

Other than oil, the only other export from that country is the super-model.

A dictator is a dictator. Which subset of his people is he looking out for?

What kind of voice do the little people (i.e. people like us that can post/blog philosophy) have going on in that country.

Are there any Abelton Live users from Venezuela on this forum?

I would love to here their comments on Hugo's Q&A.

A nationalized economy is a dangerous road for people. Especially the poor people that don't have much power to begin with.

Oh I have said too much already.

Peace on earth.

Kindest regards,

CMcG37

dango · Post by **dango** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:45 pm

thelike5 wrote:
dango wrote:Me Liking Chavez has nothing to do with the fact that he hates Bush, most of the world hates Bush and I do not admire all of them. (all though I do admit I am glad to see Chavez has some balls and publicly stands up to tyrants like Bush) I like Chavez because at least he is trying to look out for his people and take care of his people. Nobodies perfect, but at least he tries to show the world some actual good human qualities. Unlike others in power who use the world as their toilet and just shit and puke on everyone.
Troll!

whatever, thanks for your contribution to the discussion. I actually learned a little bit from everyones post here except yours. for you to just start talking shit is weak and shows that you are weak. easy to talk shit from behind the security of your computer monitor isn't it? little troll.

as far as United Electric's post, I just finished reading the BBC report and am glad I did. So I was getting only one side of the story from all the places I collect my information. They all painted a rosy picture, and I see it is not completely. I will admit, i read that q&a and was inspired, enough to want to share it. I do still agree with a lot of the humanitarian work he is doing though.

Alan Watts stated a funny idea during one of his lectures, he was speaking of tyrants and world leaders, and he said that the tyrants/world leaders are the biggest best crooks of the bunch, they made it to the top, all the crooks you see locked up are just the ones that couldn't make it to the top.

hopefully that is not true for all though.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:48 pm

cmcg37 wrote:What kind of art and music is coming out of Venezuela right now?

I would assume traditional, though it's possible that there is other stuff out there.

A dictator is a dictator. Which subset of his people is he looking out for?

The poor, the rich hate him with a passion, this is contradictory to most dictators, who get the wealthiest people's approval first, Hitler and Mussolini did. So a dictator is not always the same. The poor love him to death, he's helped them to no end, and in turn they forced the palace guards to help them overthrow an attempted coup by the rich, with help from us....

What kind of voice do the little people (i.e. people like us that can post/blog philosophy) have going on in that country.

The access is really quite good there, in fact the rich have been able to oppose him just fine, they just haven't been able to sway popular opinion on him.

A nationalized economy is a dangerous road for people. Especially the poor people that don't have much power to begin with.

See above. I don't think you understand how bad it was there before.
I think he should work on setting up a strong party based on his ideals, and realize that the world frowns on one man representing a nation for too long, but besides that, he really has been quite a positive force.
I don't think socialism is the perfect system, but then I don't think capitalism is either. To me the best systems are a combination of the two.

UnitedElectric · Post by **UnitedElectric** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:49 am

Once again, Hugo Chavez is not your friend, no matter how duplicitous he is as an interviewee:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/17/world ... ref=slogin

A quote:

Faced with an accelerating inflation rate and shortages of basic foods like beef, chicken and milk, President Hugo Chávez has threatened to jail grocery store owners and nationalize their businesses if they violate the country’s expanding price controls.

Food producers and economists say the measures announced late Thursday night, which include removing three zeroes from the denomination of Venezuela’s currency, are likely to backfire and generate even more acute shortages and higher prices for consumers. Inflation climbed to an annual rate of 18.4 percent a year in January, the highest in Latin America and far above the official target of 10 to 12 percent.

Mr. Chávez, whose leftist populism remains highly popular among Venezuela’s poor and working classes, seemed unfazed by criticism of his policies.

It is not uncommon for there to be Humano-Populist propoganda at the core of violent national take over, hence his much trumped-up popularity with the nation's poor, who in many cases have been decimated by poor government form "Right" and "Left" alike. Although I don't pretend to have much to say that would help these poor people, we should be expected to know what doesn't work. We can't ignore the disaster that was Communism in the 20th century. We have seen this pattern before, and we know where it leads.

Dango, you are not a troll, just one of many people who have seen only Chavez's pleasantries. We, until recently, have been denied much information on him except his hatred for Bush.

jackjack · Post by **jackjack** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:17 am

dango wrote:For anyone interested, here is a great Q & A with Hugo Chavez. It is good to see a leader with his head on straight and a positive agenda.

http://www.brainsturbator.com/index.php ... go_chavez/

Yeah! down with freedom! Let's hand all our power over to the government! Price-fixing is good!

You can't run your own life - Chavez will take care of it all for you!

TerryR · Post by **TerryR** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:32 am

Left or right ...communist... socialist... capitalist... the end result is the same...

12micsn1 · Post by **12micsn1** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:48 am

i cant believe someone sees this guy in a positive light. Hugo Chavez may not be at war but he presents himself looking to get himself into one. Its apparent many want to get rid of him for many reasons an wish they could have a long time ago. Im not a big fan with a guy who has enough nerve to other people devils an not look in the mirror while calling the name devil on to others.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:00 am

UnitedElectric wrote:Dango, you are not a troll, just one of many people who have seen only Chavez's pleasantries. We, until recently, have been denied much information on him except his hatred for Bush.

Ok you're being silly, we haven't been denied anything, it's an entire country, the policies are clear, if you just recently decided to pay attention, and obviously have already made up your mind, then great, that's your opinion, but you voice it with propaganda.
Socialism is working just fine in Sweden, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Norway among others. You cite extremist cases where they never got out of military rule. the one thing we don't have enough information on is how much of this claim, that seems to be backed by fact, that Chavez was flown around in a US helicopter a few years ago when a military coup took place, and subsequently failed. Or if he will in fact end up like Castro, which really didn't turn out that bad considering. If he does, it's the same chain of events, we don't like socialism, we flex our military, and fail, the leader gets paranoid, we gleefully claim his paranoia is a result of socialism and his own fascist leanings, never acknowledging the root cause could be our own bullying. Murder attempts and military coups just possibly might make a leader paranoid...... 1984 has never seemed so real to me as lately talking to people like you who probably think it was written about russia etc. it was written about England. Orwell was a socialist, anarchist.... what did the great capitalist writers leave us? Fountainhead? blah....

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:37 am

Chavez is a dangerous guy, and he's leading Venezuela into economic decimation...typical fanatical dictatorship stuff. Starts out "for the people", and then runs the country into the ground.

He better hope his oil profits keep ahead of his country's economy. Soon everything wil be state run, and by undercutting market prices he will bankrupt the business sectors one by one. The poor like it now that markets are forced to sell their meat below market price, but the store still has to buy it at market price. So they are forced to sell for a loss, and that only lasts for so long. Once the store goes out of business, nobody will get the meat.

We had a similar situation in our state, regarding the local energy monopoly (BGE). State legislatures passed bills a long time ago that capped energy prices. This in turn prevented competition from moving in. Now the legislation is expired, BGE has the monopoly, and our bills are going up 70%!

People are outraged, but the fact is this increase brings us up to modern times; we've been living under a false security. The same false security Chavez is providing his country right now.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:47 am

It's funny you would mention privatized energy as a good thing. Forgetting completely about Enron are we? rolling blackouts courtesy of privatizing something that should never be privatized.
It's funny this is like shooting fish in a barrel. Not one of you has a real concrete reason to hate the guy and call him a dictator, yet you do. Simply because he is not a capitalist.
Personally I think the dumbest thing he did was call Bush an illegally elected president and war criminal. sure it might be what he believes, but the fact is we can only surmise that Bush knew what the hell was going on, or rigged the elections, to flatly state it happened, even if the fucker did try to get you overthrown, well it's just not good politics.
The guy is not even close to Mussolini or Stalin yet all you conservative types are blabbing like he is. fun part for me in NONE of you will address the little issue of our very early attempt at overthrowing him, or the fact he jailed hardly any of his abductors. Just doesn't ring of dictatorship at all to me, he thought it would be better for the country to let the wounds heal, and win the battle through politics, not violence. But hey, if you say he's a dictator etc. because you read it on fox.com.....

OT: Viva Hugo Chavez

OT: Viva Hugo Chavez

Chavez is a Tyrant

Re: OT: Viva Hugo Chavez