Macbook Pro Touch Screen = Lemur?

[lis102trants]

Hey all,
I was just daydreaming about the Lemur when this question came to mind: wouldn't the soon-to-be multi-touch macbook pro be able to do everything the Lemur is capable of and more? Am I missing something? I'd love to own a lemur, but then again a multi-touch laptop makes my mind explode with endless ideas and possibilites!

[sweetjesus]

the iphone uses multi touch differently to jazzmutant and allows for only 2 points, so i guess nobody knows exactly what their bigger multi touch offerings will entail except for a bunch of french dudes and a guy wearing a black turtleneck.

[b0unce]

will it be a tablet style touchscreen ? will it be like a laptop, but will the keyboard be replaced by a touchscreen? or will the monitor become the touchscreen and the standard keyboard will remain ?

I suppose no one knows ?

[Machinate]

And by the time this vapour-cloud of a laptop comes out bounce and I will have had years to work on our Lemurs, building the virtuosity and tech skills that will leave you all in the dust with your 7.000$ laptops

[sweetjesus]

And by the time this vapour-cloud of a laptop comes out bounce and I will have had years to work on our Lemurs, building the virtuosity and tech skills that will leave you all in the dust with your 7.000$ laptops

so i guess while those $7000 laptop people are making money with one finger on a multi touch screen, you and bounce will be figuring out which max line is causing the cc to invert and where to stick your laptop and seperate lemur and sound card.

tbh a lemur + ur laptop + kit isnt going to stray tooo far from the $7000 mark so i wouldnt bash this vaporware too hard, there's a lot of money directred at this form of interaction.

[Machinate]

Hey SJ,
I really hope I don't come across as pedantic in the following, but I am having a bit of trouble following your post. Oh, and for the record none of my previous comment was directed at anyone personally

so i guess while those $7000 laptop people are making money

Where did the money thing come from? I am making money doing Lemur things too, you know. And the 7k$ laptops

with one finger on a multi touch screen

Do you mean the fact that although multitouch *hardware* might appear you'll still have to resort to custom programming/OS work to use it, and that most people using the systems will only use one finger anyway?

you and bounce will be figuring out which max line is causing the cc to invert and where to stick your laptop and seperate lemur and sound card.

First of all, screw CCs. Cycle->snapshot->ctlout, if you must, and doing a [* 127.]->[!- 127] isn't exactly rocket science, bro... Secondly, I do believe that we *all* carry around audio interfaces? The Lemur is just a large, somewhat heavy controller.

tbh a lemur + ur laptop + kit isnt going to stray tooo far from the $7000 mark so i wouldnt bash this vaporware too hard, there's a lot of money directred at this form of interaction.

I know I know - though my point remains: It's *STILL VAPOURWARE* - it's like sitting around waiting for the g5 laptops... some people did that for 3-4 whole years, while others got their computing power elsewhere.

Regardless, I still love you, bro - you have *the Mindset*

[b0unce]

so i guess while those $7000 laptop people are making money with one finger on a multi touch screen, you and bounce will be figuring out which max line is causing the cc to invert and where to stick your laptop and seperate lemur and sound card.

tbh a lemur + ur laptop + kit isnt going to stray tooo far from the $7000 mark so i wouldnt bash this vaporware too hard, there's a lot of money directred at this form of interaction.

"where to stick your laptop and seperate lemur and sound card."
heh, you say that like its a bad thing. I want my A/V controller/sequencer to be seperate from my cpu, and I want a seperate soundcard. And also if one thing has a problem, only one thing needs attention - not the whole kit because they're all stuck together.

depending on your goals and interests, time learning max is time well spent...
if you're not interested, you'd be surprised how useful the lemur is without using max.....I havent used it with max yet, and I've been sequencing & controlling live in pimp style. I dont see how a touch-screen laptop is going to be anymore useful than a lemur if you're going to avoid max (and similar software) in both cases.... I guess that wont be obvious until the competition surfaces and we see how they're going to implement interface construction, and how it works with audio/video software

will it be better than lemur ? .....I dunno. what needs to be improved with the jazzmutant way of doing things ? so far, I havent hit any walls - machinate would know the limitations much more than I at this stage. Theres a limit to the size of the interfaces you can build, depending on the complexity of the objects you use...but in the max realm with bi-directional OSC this isnt such a hindrance (early b0unce forecast) for example, instead of letting the lemur compute the physics of the multi-ball bouncing around, let max compute it and tell the lemur where to put the ball - this kind of thing allows the lemur to spend its processing power on more functions....correct me if I'm wrong machinate...


also, I dont want to give up the standard, tactile keyboard for controlling my computer....whatever way they implement this touch-screen laptop thing I hope they dont ditch a tactile keyboard.


oh ya, and the lemur is built like a brick shithouse - its absolutely bomb proof. I didnt realise they had made this for gigging professionals....I thought it would be a niche device, thats expensive, and somewhat fragile, like a rare synth....but no - I will use this out in confidence.

[sweetjesus]

Hey SJ,
I really hope I don't come across as pedantic in the following, but I am having a bit of trouble following your post. Oh, and for the record none of my previous comment was directed at anyone personally

so i guess while those $7000 laptop people are making money

Where did the money thing come from? I am making money doing Lemur things too, you know. And the 7k$ laptops

with one finger on a multi touch screen

Do you mean the fact that although multitouch *hardware* might appear you'll still have to resort to custom programming/OS work to use it, and that most people using the systems will only use one finger anyway?

you and bounce will be figuring out which max line is causing the cc to invert and where to stick your laptop and seperate lemur and sound card.

First of all, screw CCs. Cycle->snapshot->ctlout, if you must, and doing a [* 127.]->[!- 127] isn't exactly rocket science, bro... Secondly, I do believe that we *all* carry around audio interfaces? The Lemur is just a large, somewhat heavy controller.

tbh a lemur + ur laptop + kit isnt going to stray tooo far from the $7000 mark so i wouldnt bash this vaporware too hard, there's a lot of money directred at this form of interaction.

I know I know - though my point remains: It's *STILL VAPOURWARE* - it's like sitting around waiting for the g5 laptops... some people did that for 3-4 whole years, while others got their computing power elsewhere.

Regardless, I still love you, bro - you have *the Mindset*

you've essentially reaffirmed everything i have said...

[sweetjesus]

so i guess while those $7000 laptop people are making money with one finger on a multi touch screen, you and bounce will be figuring out which max line is causing the cc to invert and where to stick your laptop and seperate lemur and sound card.

tbh a lemur + ur laptop + kit isnt going to stray tooo far from the $7000 mark so i wouldnt bash this vaporware too hard, there's a lot of money directred at this form of interaction.

"where to stick your laptop and seperate lemur and sound card."
heh, you say that like its a bad thing. I want my A/V controller/sequencer to be seperate from my cpu, and I want a seperate soundcard. And also if one thing has a problem, only one thing needs attention - not the whole kit because they're all stuck together.

depending on your goals and interests, time learning max is time well spent...
if you're not interested, you'd be surprised how useful the lemur is without using max.....I havent used it with max yet, and I've been sequencing & controlling live in pimp style. I dont see how a touch-screen laptop is going to be anymore useful than a lemur if you're going to avoid max (and similar software) in both cases.... I guess that wont be obvious until the competition surfaces and we see how they're going to implement interface construction, and how it works with audio/video software

will it be better than lemur ? .....I dunno. what needs to be improved with the jazzmutant way of doing things ? so far, I havent hit any walls - machinate would know the limitations much more than I at this stage. Theres a limit to the size of the interfaces you can build, depending on the complexity of the objects you use...but in the max realm with bi-directional OSC this isnt such a hindrance (early b0unce forecast) for example, instead of letting the lemur compute the physics of the multi-ball bouncing around, let max compute it and tell the lemur where to put the ball - this kind of thing allows the lemur to spend its processing power on more functions....correct me if I'm wrong machinate...


also, I dont want to give up the standard, tactile keyboard for controlling my computer....whatever way they implement this touch-screen laptop thing I hope they dont ditch a tactile keyboard.


oh ya, and the lemur is built like a brick shithouse - its absolutely bomb proof. I didnt realise they had made this for gigging professionals....I thought it would be a niche device, thats expensive, and somewhat fragile, like a rare synth....but no - I will use this out in confidence.

i agree with almost everything you say.

especially the ruggedness of the lemur, the jazzmutant guy let me spank his lemur. ... ... .... .....

what i dont agree with is keeping it separate.

i find that these days integration just gets better and better. they got mobile phones now scanning little triangles on the back of cereal boxes to link to secret web pages, if that's not integration in technology then i don't know what is.

i think im speaking with more of a business hat on when i say that the market doesnt want flexibility.

my point isnt what is technically better, but what's going to let people get on with making music.

im all for the next generation of delivering technology which is virtualization and premade environments.

id rather see a lemur be more like this: http://trinityaudiogroup.com/home.html than an apple multi touch tablet to be honest.

but its totally obvious we want different things from our technology and that's just down to preference, but i feel the money making will be in not having to get the common joe terribly involved with midiyoke, max or anything like that.

[Machinate]

you've essentially reaffirmed everything i have said...

Wow man.. that's ... a very well-founded answer to all my ...questions... thanks... ....

[Dj-Grobe]

Im building right now my own controller : )
Soon the videos !!
I dont pay 2500 stupid price for lemur jaja NEVERRRRRRRRRR!
Its gerat product.........but i prefer have second macbook pro for that money
: ) with lot of siths making ugly noises jajajaj


: )

[sweetjesus]

you've essentially reaffirmed everything i have said...

Wow man.. that's ... a very well-founded answer to all my ...questions... thanks... ....

well i basically suggested that an all in one unit would probably be cheaper or equivelant to a lemur + laptop + soundcard + the hassle of it all.

also that yes in most cases ive seen videos of a lemur being used, no more than one finger presses were neccessary.

the apple thing is vaporware, but what im saying is that in the future a product like that will inevitably come out and the market will opt for something like that as opposed to a frankenstein rig.

i have a frankenstein rig, so do you and so does dj grobe and by the sound of it so does bounce.

when this kind of interface is made available to a mass consumer market, we will not need to code our own interfaces.. maybe modify a little or tweak.

[Benshik]

if you're not interested, you'd be surprised how useful the lemur is without using max....

totally...

sweetjesus seems to implie that the lemur is geared only towards max/msp people but i think its appeal is wider than that... i think its perfectly possible to own a lemur and be very music oriented ie not feel obliged to experiment with CC data which results in nice technical stunts but no music at all.

[sweetjesus]

if you're not interested, you'd be surprised how useful the lemur is without using max....

totally...

sweetjesus seems to implie that the lemur is geared only towards max/msp people but i think its appeal is wider than that... i think its perfectly possible to own a lemur and be very music oriented ie not feel obliged to experiment with CC data which results in nice technical stunts but no music at all.

yeh

im getting the impression that to do useful stuff with it u need to get botched max and midi yoke fun.

otherwise i fail to see what it has to offer over a conventional midi controller than direct assignments.

[sparklepuff]

I'm buying a Lemur. It will kick ass. Kudos to Grobe for building his own. I can't build touch interfaces, so I buy them. I'm not waiting for a laptop that doesn't exist. I'm buying a Lemur.