||||Soooo Done With Quantization||||

cosmosuave · Post by **cosmosuave** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:50 pm

Had an epiphany today and have decided to say fukit to quantization on my beats... In the past I would turn it off for hats to nudge them fwd or back but now I'm flat out leaving it off... Done with rigid timing and it is now time to get a groove on... If your using the quantize turn it off and program beats without it... Hear the difference...

bigbadotis · Post by **bigbadotis** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:55 pm

the difference in my case sounds an awful lot like bad timing.... :)

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:57 pm

That's all well and good as long as you don't have to deal with the midi latency bug problem. In that case it doesn't matter if your timing is good or not, it won't play back the same way that you recorded it (in relation to the click).

Which version of Live are you running?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:02 pm

icedsushi wrote:That's all well and good as long as you don't have to deal with the midi latency bug problem. In that case it doesn't matter if your timing is good or not, it won't play back the same way that you recorded it (in relation to the click).

Which version of Live are you running?

sushi - what's the bug you speak of? The way you phrased that makes it sound like it's impossible to record midi into Live, which people have been doing for years. Live's best feature isn't midi handling but I don't think it's unusable.

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:11 pm

Unquantized midi notes after recording would alway play back later than recorded when the monitor switch was set to AUTO or IN. This was a problem in Live 5 around 5.0.3 where the buffer amt was actually ADDED a second time to the midi clip. Many people had complained and it was fixed somewhere around 5.2. So if you're on the latest version of Live 5, it's cool.

But, if you read the thread I reference, Live 6 users are saying the monitoring latency problem came back again! I hope this is not true but there are a lot of people experiencing it in the thread. Too many and too long a thread not to be true I think...

I'm still on 5.2.2 and all is good so I'm afraid to upgrade to 6 for this very reason.

cosmosuave · Post by **cosmosuave** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:12 pm

I'm not recording midi I'm plotting the notes in the grid with the mouse...

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:23 pm

So you hit the command key and nudge them to taste after drawing them in?

Seems tedious but if it yields good results...

Surely it's quicker than recording midi with improper latency added (supposedly in Live 6), and then having to move it all around anyway.

cosmosuave · Post by **cosmosuave** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:30 pm

icedsushi wrote:So you hit the command key and nudge them to taste after drawing them in?

Seems tedious but if it yields good results...

Surely it's quicker than recording midi with improper latency added (supposedly in Live 6), and then having to move it all around anyway. :wink:

I just turn the quantization button off in the clip edit window... The little yellow box "1/16"... Once I have the notes where I want them for a one bar loop I'll turn it on, duplicate those notes for 4 bars and make subtle changes by turning off quantize then putting it on to lock it all down...

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:33 pm

Tone Deft wrote:The way you phrased that makes it sound like it's impossible to record midi into Live, which people have been doing for years. Live's best feature isn't midi handling but I don't think it's unusable.

With the "bug" it's not totally unusable but it's still far from being accurate. It depends on your personal tolerance and expectations for tight timing. And it also depends on your buffer size. The larger buffer you select, the more delay will be added to your midi clips.

Yes people have been recording midi in Live for years. Some have no problems because they're using a version of Live 4 or 5 that doesn't have the midi problem. Others who are running a version that has the problem don't notice it or just think they're playing is a little more little sloppy than they thought and fix it manually. And then you have the remaining people who are actually noticing it in Live 6, and reporting the problem to Ableton as you can see in the thread.

ChiDJ · Post by **ChiDJ** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:35 pm

Straight Quanitization = Robot Beats.

But remember, a groove is created in relation to straight time. If nothing is quantized, your listener doesn't have a reference. You want to "pull and push" your other perc and bassline off this fixed reference.

Tip: quantize your Kick and snare and swing everything else.

cosmosuave · Post by **cosmosuave** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:39 pm

ChiDJ wrote:Straight Quanitization = Robot Beats.

Tip: quantize your Kick and snare and swing everything else.

Yep kick is always quantized... Snare very close I'll throw the odd one off a bit...

ChiDJ · Post by **ChiDJ** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:42 pm

cosmosuave wrote:
ChiDJ wrote:Straight Quanitization = Robot Beats.

Tip: quantize your Kick and snare and swing everything else.
Yep kick is always quantized... Snare very close I'll throw the odd one off a bit...

Then yer rockin cosmosuave!

cosmosuave · Post by **cosmosuave** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:44 pm

ChiDJ wrote:
cosmosuave wrote:
ChiDJ wrote:Straight Quanitization = Robot Beats.

Tip: quantize your Kick and snare and swing everything else.
Yep kick is always quantized... Snare very close I'll throw the odd one off a bit...

Then yer rockin cosmosuave! 8)

I'll post the results as an mp3 after my gig this Sunday at Beats, Breaks and Culture Fest at Toronto Harbour Front Centre...

laird · Post by **laird** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:48 pm

Quantize Strength can be your friend

vanheusen · Post by **vanheusen** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:17 pm

Better to record until you get it right, a lot of times its even faster than nudging stuff around or trying to find the exact swing or something.