Patch Change Events on Live

drosenstark · Post by **drosenstark** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:11 pm

Hi, I'm using Ableton to record Midi tracks from a Roland Handsonic. The patchchange events (switches from one drumkit to another, if you will) are being recorded by Live, and being played back.

It's okay but I'd like more control over this. Is there anyway to SEE the MIDI events like I can in Cakewalk? I would love to be able to put in a patchchange event WHEN I WANT TO instead of having to "play it" from the Handsonic.

Thanks for your help and sorry if this topic has been posted on before.

Patch · Post by **Patch** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:33 am

I'll see what I can do.

But I've never changed events on Live before...

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:37 am

Live doesn't record patch changes, it's something else.

the only midi data you can use in Live are notes, CC#s and tempo control. the only way to view them are in the piano roll.

download midi ox (free) or C6 (free) to monitor midi traffic.

Patch might be able to do it but he's expensive and will drink all your beer.

Lord Kahn · Post by **Lord Kahn** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:22 pm

There is no way for Live to send program change messages, please stop discussing this

pbajzek · Post by **pbajzek** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:30 pm

Lord Kahn wrote:There is no way for Live to send program change messages, please stop discussing this

This is not true- MIDI clips contain drop-down menus for Bank, Sub-Bank and Program, and these PC's are sent on the appropriate MIDI channel when the clip is fired. I use this feature all the time to change patches on my Nord synth, Guitar Rig and various softsynths.

So to accompplish drosenstark's goal, you could chop up your MIDI track into multiple clips and set the desired changes into each one. This is less elegant than the Cakewalk behavior you've described, but it does work.

drosenstark · Post by **drosenstark** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:02 pm

Thanks so much pbajzek! I didn't know that they are called Bank/Program Changes in Live. For what I need, it's easier than the Cakewalk event-view.

Anyway, to verify that you are right one can just search for "Bank and Program Change" in the Live Manual (it's section 8.3.2). Of COURSE Live can do that!

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:11 am

pbajzek wrote:
Lord Kahn wrote:There is no way for Live to send program change messages, please stop discussing this
This is not true- MIDI clips contain drop-down menus for Bank, Sub-Bank and Program, and these PC's are sent on the appropriate MIDI channel when the clip is fired. I use this feature all the time to change patches on my Nord synth, Guitar Rig and various softsynths.

So to accompplish drosenstark's goal, you could chop up your MIDI track into multiple clips and set the desired changes into each one. This is less elegant than the Cakewalk behavior you've described, but it does work.

damn, thanks for catching that, I was wrong too.

Skeyelab · Post by **Skeyelab** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:34 am

Lord Kahn wrote:There is no way for Live to send program change messages, please stop discussing this

please read your manual, this is described there.

pbajzek · Post by **pbajzek** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:01 am

It's a great feature in Live. Too bad that so many soft synths (including Live's devices) don't respond to MIDI PC. They really, really should.

Lord Kahn · Post by **Lord Kahn** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:13 am

Skeyelab wrote:
Lord Kahn wrote:There is no way for Live to send program change messages, please stop discussing this
please read your manual, this is described there.

Yeah that's what I thought, but it definitely can't be done, otherwise people would have worked out how to do it by now.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:29 am

Lord Kahn wrote:
Skeyelab wrote:
Lord Kahn wrote:There is no way for Live to send program change messages, please stop discussing this
please read your manual, this is described there.
Yeah that's what I thought, but it definitely can't be done, otherwise people would have worked out how to do it by now.

Drink a coffee and read the thread again

pbajzek · Post by **pbajzek** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:03 pm

Lord Kahn wrote:
Skeyelab wrote:
Lord Kahn wrote:There is no way for Live to send program change messages, please stop discussing this
please read your manual, this is described there.
Yeah that's what I thought, but it definitely can't be done, otherwise people would have worked out how to do it by now.

Good grief, I just explained *exactly* how to do it. Hey everybody, please change your patches in Live- it definitely can be done!

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:20 pm

Another dumb question. How about automating soft synth patches?

Lets say I have a single instance of Operator but want it to change patches automatically in the middle of the song. How do I do it?

Do I need to RTFM or drink some coffee?

pbajzek · Post by **pbajzek** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:33 pm

Changing patches requires that the softsynth accept MIDI program changes. As none of Ableton's built-in devices do this, I assume Operator does not either (I'm not really familiar with Operator). It's something I've requested, as I would love to change effects rack patches via MIDI.

There are some softsynths that do accept MIDI PC- I know Vanguard and Minimonsta will. Probably others, but I'm only familiar with a few.

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:51 pm

Another dumb question. How about automating soft synth patches?

Lets say I have a single instance of Operator but want it to change patches automatically in the middle of the song. How do I do it?

lives plugins don't accept program changes, but you can build racks of them and switch chains on the fly. see section 16.5 (page 211) of the manual. part 16.5.4 was what i was thinking of specifically, but the whole section shows you different ways this could be done with racks.

Patch Change Events on Live

Patch Change Events on Live

Perfect, I Get It