Live performance setup

[Jasu]

Hello,

I'm sweating with my live setup options. Can you please help me?

I have about 12 separate Live projects (i.e. tracks) I want to glue to function as one smooth live show.

Option 1.
Render clips and loops from each project and then build them in one project. I've done it once but it takes loads of time, especially when rebuilding the set in new project. Also, I can't tweak the instruments anymore. For the new live I want more..

Option 2.
Start a new project and drag & drop each project into it. This seems to be better way... but Live (6.0.9) crashes sometimes. Also, this way I wont get the Return tracks with. So, it's not good enough.

Option 3.
Run multiple instances of Live. I think this might be the best but I'm not able to sync it correctly. I want to use midisync BUT not so that both tracks launch simultaneously. If I don't use midisync and just put same tempo, I will never be able to start it in sync..

I don't want to just render tracks and play them 'like dj'.

So, if you have any alternatives or suggestions please let me know!

[fatrabbit]

Couldn't you do Option 1, but keep a few things unrendered (eg. as MIDI instruments or whatever you're using). This could be especially handy if you are using the same instrument (for example FM8) in many tracks of your 12.

Rendered stuff down to put into a big Live set doesn't mean the end - there's all kinds of processing/effects you can do to it in a live situation as well.

[Jasu]

Couldn't you do Option 1, but keep a few things unrendered (eg. as MIDI instruments or whatever you're using). This could be especially handy if you are using the same instrument (for example FM8) in many tracks of your 12.

I think it takes way too much time and it's difficult to re-build the track structure (unless you render the whole track to one file). I did Option 1 earlier this year and it took about 2 weeks in all... I mean, I have now the 'perfect' arrangement for each track so why should spend hours in rebuilding it from loops (and first spend hours in making these loops).

Rendered stuff down to put into a big Live set doesn't mean the end - there's all kinds of processing/effects you can do to it in a live situation as well.

I know. In my previous set I had lots of effects etc. so It's not problem for me to use rendered stuff. I just don't want to spend hours per each track to split stuff and then rebuild them somewhere else.

[kpa]

i am in exactly te same positionas you are: trying to work the best way to organise a live set. After much thinking and looking on this forum this is the way i have decided ito do it.

Like you i will have about 10 or 12 tracks, so i have a pretty certain running order for the tracks. I will (all channel # and slot # are approx)
put song 1 in channels 1 - 10, slots 1 - 10
song 2 in channels 11 - 20, slots 11-20 etc, etc etc.
This does mean that the whole set will be about 100 channels wide and about 100 or so slots high, but i figure this is the easiest way to do it.

Once i get to the end of a track can mix in the next track live by launching the clips of the new track and ending thc lips of the old tracks. That way it means i can have all the vst's and fx loaded on the correct tracks and waiting to go, but they wont affect cpu as there is nothing going through them until they are needed.

I am also going to try and figure out if its possible to have different midi channels from my controller keyboard and trigger finger so i can just change the midi channel they send to and it corresponds to the correct song.

That seems pretty clear when i read it back, but if you need some clarification let me know.

Also if anyone has done it this way let me know if it works cool or it has some problems as i am still setting it up (and making some new tunes) so i haven't tried it out yet.


Good luck,

kpa

[fatrabbit]

100 channels wide?? Whoa...

Couldn't you have different VSTs/Instruments on the same channel but contained within racks, then use the rack chain selector to switch between them?

[kpa]

i had thought about that, having x channels fro different drums then another x for synths, bass etc and changing what needed changin when nessecary. But, i decided that if every song takes up its own section of the mixer then it would makes everythng easier to comprehend. Im getting ready for my first live set so i havent figured out a workflow that siouts me yet. It also means i can just drop new tunes into my set easy enough and not have to arrange anything.

I dont know how my laptop will handle it, i assume it will be ok as the live manual says that things not in use do not take up any cpu, i hope this is the case. I'll find out in a few days when i do a test run.

[tricil]

render anything you're not gonna play, ie backing tracks

it's a good idea to have each thing on it's own track, ie, a drum channel, a bass channel, synth, fx, etc. you may want to have two of each and put 'em on opposite sides of the x fader

on what you will play live (ie, instruments) create a rack with everything on that channel (ie. live drums are on channel 10 of your midi controller, synths chan 2, bass chan 3)

use the device selector

since you'll be playing them live you will probably have the channel on "insert" mode

make dummy clips that launch with the first scene of an instance of each song to automate the chain selector for you.

voila... new song playing, liberal use of fx and cool crossfades, and the patch has already been changed for you.

kick it.

[chapelier fou]

Personnaly, I have a little sampler (sp 303) for triggering premade sequences between the songs, while the next one is loading. It's a cheap but efficient way, I think.

[WaveRider]

yeah, it is problematic... I choosen to have some silence while I load the song, witch takes less than 10sec... but its not a dance set anyway.... chapelier`s idea is a good solution...

but I wish ableton address this problem... imagine loading a live set as a clip in the grid, and double clicking that "group track" to access the set. Then go back to the grid, loading the next set as another group track etc... then you would have all your material ready for a live set...

...wish you get the picture anyway

[simplemusic]

This has always seemed to me to be a fundamental flaw in Ableton. There's enough good stuff that we are ok to live with this, but that is what it is - compromise and working around (and I admit this only really effects the club-style performer....no gaps)

I am a recent convert from Cubase (11 years), and my ultimate vision for Live for me is to have say 100 tracks that I have written over the years in Live and I want to play live and pick and choose from these tracks, which all consist of loops and clips to be triggered live, some midi tracks and parts, some live keys and perc played over the top and the real 'Live' elements of Live exploited. There is no way that you could have live access to all 100 tracks and be abel to pick and choose on the fly which songs you were playing...and (this is important), mixing into each other in a seamless club-style mix. Anyone who has ever had a DJ/performer ever really control the crowd will know that the approach of 'just stop between your tracks' is a dum-arse idea.

All the suggestions I have seen seem like only bareable workarounds.

Still....I'm lovin' Live

[fatrabbit]

There are some people who have really massive Live sets... Moldover for example. Have you tried messing with the Freeze options ons VST tracks? Personally I don't see why you'd need so many of the VSTs you used in creating the track in a live set. It's good to have a few of course, but bounce and consolidate wherever you can I reckon.

[Jasu]

Thanks for the ideas & comments.

I like Capelier's idea. I'm having some experiments running two Live instances to play song from first and load next song to second etc. but its not very stable for real performance yet. My music is for clubs so it can't have much gaps of silence.

Having all in one (the 100 channel solution) would be great but I have so much stuff built on Return channels, which you cant copy that easy, its wouldn't work out. Also my MBP probably couldn't run with all that stuff because even one song can make it sweat (could be lack of skills also).

Now I'm rendering songs as six channels (bass, perc, lead, etc.). I have to merge many channels as my songs usually come from 12 - 20 individual channels. But this is ok for the sake of control and harmony.

Even with careful planning I'm experiencing difficulties with the clips. For example, I like to split & crop the clips to e.g. 32 bars and to loop (so that the music wont stop even I'm drinking some beer). Now I have 100-200 clips / song, and I when I select all and tell them to loop, the loop position is all f***d so I have to do each manually. Takes time.

Also, having all this fancy bag of clips equals about 15 Gigabytes and is nothing new, just another way of having the same music... Nice.

[Lo-Key Fu]

Now I'm rendering songs as six channels (bass, perc, lead, etc.). I have to merge many channels as my songs usually come from 12 - 20 individual channels. But this is ok for the sake of control and harmony.

This is the route I take too mate. Many of my finished studio tunes use about 20-40 tracks, but I find that grouping them carefully makes all the difference. At the moment, I use the following six headings: Kick, Snare, Kit (the rest of the drums), Bass, Lead, Background (basically everything else). I find this amply splits my tune so I can play with each channel differently in a live scenario; ensures that I have audio playing on most tracks most of the time (hence comparatively efficient); and leaves me plenty of room to move in terms of adding extra tracks for additional sounds and improvised loops along the way.

Studio Version BUS Setup
In your studio version of your tunes, try bussing all tracks to 6 additional audio tracks (I keep them at the top of my arrangement view for ease of reference). This makes it easy to solo - then render - each of the six groups as individual files without having to think about "which sound should go where" every time you need to re-render (eg. after adjusting a tune).

Even with careful planning I'm experiencing difficulties with the clips. For example, I like to split & crop the clips to e.g. 32 bars and to loop (so that the music wont stop even I'm drinking some beer). Now I have 100-200 clips / song, and I when I select all and tell them to loop, the loop position is all f***d so I have to do each manually. Takes time.

I keep my original 6 renders as complete tracks for the purpose of live performance - rather than taking the time to split each track into smaller pieces - but use the "loop" option for sections to achieve the same aim. Saves you a lot of unnecessary cutting and keeps my total file size per track down to about 0.25 gig.

A good workflow I have found here is as follows:

Live Setup Workflow
Basically the concept is to spend the time setting up the first 6 clips manually, and then just hitting CTRL-D and making minor adjustments as you go...

[1] Import all 6 tracks across six scenes in your performance set session view.

Then, working on a single drum track (or one with clear tempo indicators):
[2] Check the marker for the first beat is at the very beginning of the file.
[3] Check your warp markering and accurately fine-tune as required.

Again, making adjustments to each individual track along the row:
[4] Ensure the "End" point is accurate (move it in from the right if needed).
[5] Select/copy/paste your drum track warp markers to the other 5 tracks.
[6] Set the "Warp" mode appropriate to the sound(s).
[7] Turn on the "Loop" function.
[8] Use this order for making loop/clip settings: "Length", "Position", "Start"
[9] Make any other cllip specific settings relevant to the track you are working on.

Finally, select all six adjusted tracks and hit CTRL-D (duplicate) and the clips you have just adjusted all copy themselves to the next scene down of Session View. From here, return to point (4) and repeat with different "Length", "Position", "Start" settings as needed.


Reading back down the list this sounds more long-winded than it actually is. Once you get the workflow happening you should be able to render, format and throw a new tune into a set in no time using this method.

Good luck!

[Machinate]

100 channels wide?? Whoa...

Couldn't you have different VSTs/Instruments on the same channel but contained within racks, then use the rack chain selector to switch between them?

+1 - by far the better option, methinks.

[Jasu]

Thanks again for the tips!