Why would you pay $800 for 3-day certification?

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:49 pm

Every so often I look into music program training because I think it would be a good way to learn, get some hands on, and be around people with similar interests. I think a day or 2 a week over 2 to 3 months would be ideal, but these types of programs are rare and usually insanely expensive.

What I don't get are these 6 hour a day, 3 days in a row certification programs that are quite costly. I really don't think I would walk away with that much knowledge cramming that much information into such a quick space of time. There are plenty of programs like this which also makes you think there is some kind of high demand for them. What are these jobs that require this or feel that you spending a weekend staring at ProTools or Logic qualifies you for anything?

I really don't understand. Anybody have any expience with these things?

blank · Post by **blank** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:09 am

I went to a 1 year and a half program in a « specialised » school here in Montreal.

The program was extremely costy and that was total shit.

I don't know about the 3 days ones like you talk about, I don't think we have that kind of stuff around here but usually that kind of thing are total krap, how can you become a logic master in 18 hours ? This is truly impossible to me.

Now I often go in some demo/training sessions offered here by some shop. I meet people with similar interest, I learn a lot from them and it doesn't cost a penny

-B

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:24 am

None of these programs seem to justify the cost because at the end of the day what you do with music is mainly up to your drive and persistance. It's not like there are tons of companies just waiting for somebody to walk with a degree or certifaction in music. So you are either spending $800 to get certifed but can't remember shit because it was crammed into 3 days. Or you spend $40,000+ to get more knowledge over a longer period of time and at the end of it all you have is a huge debt and no job. There should be a middle ground.

Liam · Post by **Liam** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:11 am

Sit down and try to write what it is exactly that you hope to learn. A plan if you will.

Break it down into small manageable chunks and pursue small step goals one by one.

Create a list and tick off what you finish.

Keep the TO DO list right on your computer screen. Read it and amend (as or if required) each day at least.

Make it realistic. Reading an entire manual for example may be too much.

I think expensive and intensive 'courses' are not a good idea for most people.

dcease · Post by **dcease** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:36 am

i've learned far more playing with, and rtfm, then i think i would in a class.

not to mention the shit i pick up here. i know my way around live, but some of you mofo's, it's like damn!!! i hope to be like that in a couple of years...

j2j · Post by **j2j** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:46 am

books...

sorry but there are just not billions of books to read about making pro records...

in this subject, there is a small handful. actually, most everything, if not everything, about this music pro stuff can be found in these... after that, its just practice...

dance music manual
secrets of programming dance and electronica
welshes synth cookbook
how to make a noise
audio engineer's handbook
from behind the glass
computer synthesis and sound design
the art and science of playing records

+ any 2 random college texts on music theory.

or if you have no clue on music theory start here

music theory made easy by dave harp

then work your way up...

there is your 40000 dollar course....

meanwhile, if you are thinking about a well paid job as an audio engineer, try and figure out he mixed the latest radio head.

if he made minimum wage, I would be damn impressed...

you want any chance now, you got to mix ur own stuff. and you must read the few books on the subject.

or spend 40 grand on your course, and learn it that way.

a winning combo is probably doing both, reading books, and the course, that way you get the most knowledge

muthafunka · Post by **muthafunka** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:08 am

Skills you learn aside, I think one of the main objectives of quite a few 'certification' courses is that it's hopefully a license for you to make more money ie you can teach, consult etc at a higher rate or in institutions/situations you wouldn't otherwise.

dextroc · Post by **dextroc** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:29 am

I'm in school. I'm learning composition with new media. I'd learn very little about programs if I wouldn't do a lot of independent studying of the programs. For example, I had a max/msp course a year ago. I think I even succeeded the teacher in knowledge of max in many areas (he was using me to teach when he was late for class) and it was my first real encounter with max. So it's all down to you, really. $800 for 18 hours of classes is useless if you're only relying on that program.

popslut · Post by **popslut** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:31 am

Why would you pay $800 for 3-day certification?

I haven't a fucking clue.

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:11 pm

I know there are plenty of books and I have a good many of them, and you can learn a lot on your own, but shockingly I lack discipline. I've been left to my own devices for many years and ultimately I just end up noodling away on the same things I've always been doing.

If there were classes with assignments over several months then I think I would learn a lot more and find out things I've never even thought of. I've even paid for studio time just to be around somebody that knows more than me and has more equipment. I'm just saying there should be something that is cheaper than $40-$50 an hour, $800 for a weekend, or $40,000+ for a mostly useless degree or certification. Most JC type courses are geared towards music theory and traditional type learning and if there are production classes they are usually during the day when most adults have to be at a job.

liveISlife · Post by **liveISlife** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:41 pm

I think learning on your own is a good way to do it (with people's help, guidance and mentoring on the way of course) I think that course stuff is, like dude said, an insane rip off. I mean im sure you would learn useful stuff but you can learn all that on own if you have the drive which was stated before. I mean think about the first like mixer/master dudes back in the 50's they didn't know what the heck they were doing. They were not "certified" they were just constantly creatively innovating and creating techniques and ways to do stuff. Which created the basis we have today. So I think the best options is to learn those fundamentals from reading. 3 books I did not see mentioned are The Mixing Engineers handbook' Ableton Live 6 power( I don't think there is one for 7 yet) and of course Mastering Audio. And just go nuts in your DAW of choice. All of us now are like the original dudes in the 50's. We have this all new and ever expanding digital workplace where there is infinite possibilities to create and innovate new ways and technics of doing things.

Best wishes- Aaron

Nod · Post by **Nod** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:31 pm

beats me wrote:What I don't get are these 6 hour a day, 3 days in a row certification programs that are quite costly. I really don't think I would walk away with that much knowledge cramming that much information into such a quick space of time. There are plenty of programs like this which also makes you think there is some kind of high demand for them. What are these jobs that require this or feel that you spending a weekend staring at ProTools or Logic qualifies you for anything? I really don't understand. Anybody have any expience with these things?

In some cases they are aimed at teachers or post grads looking to tweak up 'on the basics' just to get accredition. I'd certainly agree that the 3 day thing, unless it's followed by genuine hands on time over a period, won't leave much in the way of residual knowledge. Apple, in particular, are hot on licensing the idea under the guise of 'training' for their media apps.

heavensdaw · Post by **heavensdaw** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:56 am

I've given this some thought too...

Possibly if you an absolute noob, a kind of crash course could get you into the basic concepts of working with audio and midi in this case Live quickly.. Providing you were to work at it every day after for a while to make sure that what you learned gets well set.. I saw a two day workshop (basic Ableton Live) in London for 300 GBP and an advanced two day for the same price...

Live lets us in.. So that someone with really limited know how can get things going relatively simply..

Depending on your situation and needs.. Me for example...
I have been recording for 25+ years, never had any formal training, always had some kind of home setup... But heres the crunch ....As (now) i live out in the sticks the technical musical type influences around me have have been greatly reduced..
So I have to be really much more self disciplined than I used to when I lived in a much more technomusica environment....

There is so much information available to us today.. Possibly too much!

Where are you on the learning curve and what are your goals?

Personally, I would love to have a one of you guys who really know how to fly with Live, come out to my place for a week or so. To have a one on one barrier breaker session.. Drink some good local vino, smoke a little and generally have a good time..
I never liked going to school... And I have always found learning far more rewarding when I'm relaxed and in a conducive environment..

Also BIG UP to this forum.. (most of)You guys are really helpful and give me many smiles... I learn SHIT-LOADS here..

Anywazzz...

Peace

Hd

Frantag · Post by **Frantag** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:39 pm

Set up a recording school and make some money for a change.

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:32 pm

This looks interesting. They offer courses in both digital music and music for the media. Both are about $1,500 but the digital music program lasts a year and the music for media is over a 2 year period, and they allow you to pay in installments of about $125 a month. That seems like a good pace and a reasonable price.

http://www.thinkspaceonline.com/default.asp?p=0

Anybody heard of these guys?

Why would you pay $800 for 3-day certification?

Why would you pay $800 for 3-day certification?

Re: Why would you pay $800 for 3-day certification?