Drum Programming

JMFOne · Post by **JMFOne** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:15 am

Hi Guys

I was wondering if anyone has a link or tips to help me improve. I can get a failry decent loop going but it sounds terrible compared to one from the vengence minimal pack for example.

I understand how velocity, panning and groove/timing affect the beat but i can't seem to make them "gel" or feel as full and exciting as I want.

Last night I worked out how to use a gate on reverb and this seems to be key to getting that "gel" im after. So I guess im looking for help and advice in that domain really.

Thanks

dru · Post by **dru** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:32 am

experiment, experiment, experiment. Fuck trying to sound like someone else..

SimonPHC · Post by **SimonPHC** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:44 am

the problem with sample packs is that most samples, especially loops have been compressed to pump and sound great, so they would sell more copies.

while in fact, when making music, you want to be able to choose when and how much compression is used on different sounds, and on the final mix.

just make something that you really like and the experiment with creative use of compression effects (use compression as a effect rather than a finalising tool). save a different copy of your liveset and go mad with routings and such. it'll liven up for sure!

90's child · Post by **90's child** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:15 pm

All the Vengenace team do is compress their loops with a little UAD compression. He said so in an interview.

You talk about making your drum sounds gel. To me you are talking about bus compression which just means send all your drums to an audio channel and stick a compressor over that channel.

SimonPHC · Post by **SimonPHC** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:47 pm

oh ok, I didn't know that about the UAD. I use no sample packs, just single hits from various sources, so I'm not familiar with the vengence sound.

Making your drums gel, that's the question right?

well first of all, choose or synthesize the right sounds. there is no point in trying to work a groove with sounds that don't fit together. In fact, making a drum kits coherent will help you with your signature sound, as you will uncover tendencies in your taste.

secondly, if you don't know how to synthesize sounds, but want to learn, look up the Synth Secrets on the Sound On Sound website. Making your own sounds will help you to sound more coherent.

thirdly, use some effects like gated reverbs, delays, phasers and such, but very subtly, almost unhearble.

And then at last, use a drum bus. An channel where you send all your drum sounds to and compress this so they really work together.

but really, at the end of the day all this really comes down to:

dru wrote:experiment, experiment, experiment.

Igor L · Post by **Igor L** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:37 pm

dru wrote:experiment, experiment, experiment. Fuck trying to sound like someone else..

Actually I think that trying to sound like someone else is a good way to improve your drum programming. Listen to a drum track that you like and try to duplicate it. Then dissect what you did.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:12 pm

It just takes a long time and lots of practice, there's not real shortcuts IMO. Choosing the right drum sounds helps loads, as sounds that go well together tend to sit in their own audio range and not clash with each other. Unfortunately knowing when sounds go well together is one of those things that only comes with practice

Just keep at it, don't be afraid to try different sounds and always be on the lookout for new ones too. Also, listen to real drummers, maybe record a 2 bar loop and try to figure out which hits they make louder than other ones, and which ones are most off of a rigid time scale. Analyzing this sort of stuff in Live can help you a lot to understand what sounds natural, and what sounds too robotic.

90's child · Post by **90's child** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:59 pm

[quote="Tarekith"]It just takes a long time and lots of practice, there's not real shortcuts IMO. quote]

This is so true. I've been doing this shit for 9 years and I'm only just getting to a point where my tunes sound OK the morning after the night before. Making tunes is a proper life commitment.

JMFOne · Post by **JMFOne** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:35 pm

Thanks guys the advice you have given me is great.

With respect to the guy who told me to listen to loops and see how they did theirs, that is what I am trying to do at the moment. My problem is it all sounds so well "gelled" that i can't really make out how or what he/she has programmed. I can make out the odd open hat or tambarine but the fill stuff is unrecognisable. I guess i'm after knowing what stuff to put in the loop really and where.
Don't worry I know this doesn't come easy and tbh I wouldn't want it to. It's just I will make a loop, listen to one from the vengence pack and it completely demoralises me lol.

My usual workflow is:

Find good kick
Find good snare
Put in typical 4x4 mode.
Add good hats
Maybe add a shaker which I would sidechain
Maybe abit of perc
EQ everything/pan then put reverb on and send to a comp buss
I'm stuck now

End result is something that sounds alright but hardly exciting.

PS I don't think I am using the sends right. If i put a reverb on a send and turn the send dial on the channel up it gives me a phasing type sound so i usually resort to sticking individual reverbs on each channel.

AML · Post by **AML** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:47 pm

Are you turning up the level of the reverb on the send track itself or the track you want it sent to?

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:31 pm

I think you just need to practice tuning your ears then, if you can't hear the fills and all the little stuff yet, it's going to be hard to understand how to program them on your own. You really do need to spend A LOT of time just listening over and over and over so you can learn to visualize what you're hearing.

dango · Post by **dango** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:16 am

Hey James,

not sure if this will help. it is kind of the basics but maybe it will have some info you can use. not sure where it is originally from so i just uploaded it for download.

d~

http://www.sinewavezero.com/drums.pdf

selthym · Post by **selthym** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:11 am

Haven't read the article ^ yet but Thanks for this, it sounds good.

JMFOne · Post by **JMFOne** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:04 am

AML wrote:Are you turning up the level of the reverb on the send track itself or the track you want it sent to?

Im turning the send A level up on the channel I want the reverb to be added to and not touching the actual send channels levels at all. I have tried turning the send channels level up (is this called the return level?) but then it makes things worse. Am I going wrong somewhere?

Dango thanks alot for that article thats just what i'm after.

Tarekeith I think largly you are right, I won't be able to know what they are doing without thorough practise. I'm hoping this article can give me a boost though.

Thanks for all your input guys you have saved me hours of stress and tantrums lol.

pulsoc · Post by **pulsoc** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:39 pm

Igor L wrote:
dru wrote:experiment, experiment, experiment. Fuck trying to sound like someone else..
Actually I think that trying to sound like someone else is a good way to improve your drum programming. Listen to a drum track that you like and try to duplicate it. Then dissect what you did.

+1

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