Disable Warp & Fade - Globally?

e.maynard · Post by **e.maynard** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:36 pm

Can this be done? Or do we have to do this clip by clip?

Thanks
Erik

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:16 pm

well you've got some preference settings

but a new recording will always be warped, therefore your default should be beats or repitch

you can select a bunch of clips and turn warp off on all of them in one go

e.maynard · Post by **e.maynard** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:56 pm

longjohns wrote:well you've got some preference settings

but a new recording will always be warped, therefore your default should be beats or repitch

you can select a bunch of clips and turn warp off on all of them in one go

Hmmmm, you're right. That helps...... It'd be nice if there was a solid way to disable the Warp/Fade feature globally though.

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:32 am

as was said on your other thread, this has really been discussed to death. the non-warp-fearing crowd has the leg up in the argument because they have done extensive testing on this matter.

the warp-fearing crowd doesn't have much ammo beyond "hearing a difference"

but many acknowledge that this is what is important in the end, perception

in either case, the answer is still "no"

(but set your default warp mode to beats anyway... will avert some potential problems with operations like consolidate, etc.)

e.maynard · Post by **e.maynard** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:22 am

"the warp-fearing crowd doesn't have much ammo beyond hearing a difference"

Great quote.

All the same, even the Ableton Manual states:

26.4 Tips for Achieving Optimal Sound Quality in Live
For users looking to achieve optimal audio quality in Live, we have provided a list of
recommended practices and program settings.

For all audio clips, disable both the Warp and Fade options in the Clip View.

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:28 am

yes, but that quote from the manual doesn't mean you have to disable warp if you're in a situation where's there's no actual warping going on (because you're working at same, original tempo and using beats, etc.). please read the other threads on this and come back if there's actually an issue.

what i don't get is this -- if you're just using live as a multitracker -- setting a tempo, recording tracks at that same tempo -- warp's not doing anything if you're in the right mode (beats, probably repitch too, but not complex, etc.). if you are changing tempo, you of course need warp so can't disable it. (and if you're using loops, but all at original recorded tempo, you can leave warp on and it should have no effect.)

e.maynard · Post by **e.maynard** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:47 am

OK.

So are you saying I'm over-analyzing this waaaay too much?

If so, I'll back off.

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:25 am

you're not necessarily analyzing it too much - after all, it's perfectly OK to want to have things sound as good as possible. you're just analyzing something which has been pretty thoroughly analyzed by hundreds of people before you. we're just trying to give you a quick summary of all that.

and warp settings CAN burn you. set your default to 'complex' and record a bunch of stuff and do some consolidation - now all your stuff is permanently fucked...

the point is that you should trust that this has been well covered

and there just simply is no way currently to completely disable "warping" (though like superflat says, just because the warp button is on does not mean that something is actually being processed differently)

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:30 am

e.maynard wrote:"the warp-fearing crowd doesn't have much ammo beyond hearing a difference"

Great quote.

All the same, even the Ableton Manual states:

26.4 Tips for Achieving Optimal Sound Quality in Live
For users looking to achieve optimal audio quality in Live, we have provided a list of
recommended practices and program settings.

For all audio clips, disable both the Warp and Fade options in the Clip View.

to be clear,

on the one hand you have people doing phase cancellations and bit-by-bit comparisons of rendered audio, and on the other hand you have some guy going "I don't care about that, it sounds different to me"

which is fine, but makes for a frustrating argument.

e.maynard · Post by **e.maynard** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:49 pm

No kidding.
I guess I'm just wishing there was a "click this button for maximum audio quality regardless of disabled features."

Thanks!!

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:59 pm

e.maynard wrote:"the warp-fearing crowd doesn't have much ammo beyond hearing a difference"

Great quote.

All the same, even the Ableton Manual states:

26.4 Tips for Achieving Optimal Sound Quality in Live
For users looking to achieve optimal audio quality in Live, we have provided a list of
recommended practices and program settings.

For all audio clips, disable both the Warp and Fade options in the Clip View.

I said to Ableton that this advice wasn't complete without telling people "clips at the same tempo as the master will also be unharmed, as long as they use beatsmode"
the response was that they didn't want to make the document over-wordy, but to provide a simple baseline to assist in A/B comparisons. I did try and press for the inclusion of a clause and even suggested appropriate wording, but they felt that advanced users would figure it out for themselves anyway.

IE: that if clip tempo = master tempo and warpmode = beats then the sound quality is unharmed.

other modes work too, but it requires a bit more info. Don't use complex for this though.

Cervantes · Post by **Cervantes** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:25 pm

"more advanced users will figure it out" is frankly an arrogant and lazy excuse.

with you angstrom. i think they should include it in the manual in MORE detail.

the only time i've ever bothered with the manual is for advanced stuff like that, and its not been there. personally i think the basics of live are fairly intuitive and straightforward. its the advanced stuff that really needs breaking down.

overall, i'm pretty dissapointed with the manual anyways.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:27 pm

mm, I couldn't be sure that was their exact wording - it may be just my memory, which is frankly quite shoddy.

I ought to look up the correspondence really.

----

edit , aha - it was actually on the forum
yep, seems it was my memory which was faulty, sorry about that.
The implication about advanced users was mainly a discussion between forum users and didn't involve Ableton.

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=590398

Dennis DeSantis wrote:Hi Angstrom,

Thanks very much for the feedback.

The goal in the "Optimal" tips section was to provide short, concrete usage ideas for a very specific kind of hypothetical user: someone who simply wants to use Live as a traditional, linear DAW, with the maximum possible sound quality.

My fear with adding special conditions to these tips is that there's more room for error. If a user leaves Warp enabled, he needs to also be sure that the clip isn't in Complex mode, the tempo never changes, Global Groove is off, etc.

We do include the disclaimer at the end of the section, advising users that some of the things that make Live so special will be disabled if the tips are followed exactly.

But perhaps, if there's still any discussion about the topic at all, this means that something should be revised. As with everything else, I'm sure we'll keep working on it.

Best,