Reaktor or Max/MSP?

Alexis Forge · Post by **Alexis Forge** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:22 am

I've been thinking a lot lately about learning Max and getting more into creating my own tools, but I already have Reaktor 4

I have it as part of Komplete 2 and have only ever loaded presets - so I'd rather use what I already have

some people have already suggested getting R5 but I dont have a pot to piss in - so that puts Max/MSP out of the frame for now too, but I could always try the demo or maybe Pd for now

question is, how far can I get with Reaktor 4? will it be really useful for building my own tools that integrate with Live - like for example TOne Deft's one pedal looper and things like that - can you do really flexible routing type stuff with Reaktor 4?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:33 am

IMO you can do more with less effort with Reaktor, but you can do more with max/msp than with Reaktor, it just takes more effort. dunno, I've only used max/msp. I've also heard is that Reaktor is a bunch of Legos to make stuff, max/msp is like owning the Lego factory.

learn your tools, save your money, LEARN Reaktor before moving onto max/msp. if you get to the point where you're feeling limited (doubt it) then get into max.

you can do what you're seeking with what you already have.

dude, wtf is up with the new login? pussy.

damnit

Lux Libra · Post by **Lux Libra** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:38 am

I think it mainly depends on what type of tools you're thinking of and
how much time you want to invest.

From what i know, Max has a slow learning
curve (at least if you're not so familiar with programing language), but can
do anything you could think of - pretty the best if you are willing to handle it.
That was my impression as i tried it and did the tutorials.

Reaktor is much more my route. Pretty visual and much like an modular
synth/effect/midi enviroment. Even if you "only" use building blocks you can
create quite complex, personal tools with a short learning curve. In R5 you can
dig ALOT deeper with NI's Core technology. Quite similar if not the same as Max.
Considering you can upgrade to R5 easily, i would do this.

But sure, in the end it depends on your need for your tools /purposes.
If you will have the need for the "all you can imagine with media and beyond" thing, MAX is for you.

Alexis Forge · Post by **Alexis Forge** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:48 am

Tone Deft wrote:IMO you can do more with less effort with Reaktor, but you can do more with max/msp than with Reaktor, it just takes more effort. dunno, I've only used max/msp. I've also heard is that Reaktor is a bunch of Legos to make stuff, max/msp is like owning the Lego factory.

learn your tools, save your money, LEARN Reaktor before moving onto max/msp. if you get to the point where you're feeling limited (doubt it) then get into max.

you can do what you're seeking with what you already have.

dude, wtf is up with the new login? pussy.

damnit

you can talk!

hey where's your loop patch at? has it been updated?

I think I'll give it another go before I start putting time into this - after all the live looping stuff can be done with Live, the only thing is control, and just having that one pedal can make a difference - just watched the Jamie Lidell link I posted in Angstrom's thread and it's what inspired me and reminded me - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbMS08NEaTA

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:55 am

you're falling into that 'if I buy more gear I can do more stuff' syndrome.

buy max, you'll get just as little done as you are with Reaktor but do much more swearing.

LEARN what you already own.

Alexis Forge · Post by **Alexis Forge** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:03 am

Tone Deft wrote:you're falling into that 'if I buy more gear I can do more stuff' syndrome.

buy max, you'll get just as little done as you are with Reaktor but do much more swearing.

LEARN what you already own.

yeah you're absolutely right

actually just Live + your patch is proably enough for me - it's just control that;s the problem

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:13 am

oh yeah, ummm haven't touched that patch for a while, really the thing that Pepezabola and I came up with for L7 is MUCH better.

you should make the same thing in Reaktor, GREAT way to learn, start with a project in mind you want.

basically it's all about sending out notes in a coordinated fashion. also remember that the second click on a clip to make it automatically go to playback has to be entered AFTER it starts recording.

n = number of tracks you want to use

you need to generate n+1 notes

note n+1 is to advance the scene

so...

listen for a midi command

send out note x

wait for quantise setting plus a small amount of time

send out note x

listen for a midi command

send out note x + 1

wait for quantise setting plus a small amount of time

send out note x + 1

when you get to x = n, send out x+1 to go to the next scene, start over with x, then x+1 etc.

hth, that'd be a good project, and one people can use.

feels good to share that stuff, even better when it works. plus the power of open source is amazing.

Alexis Forge · Post by **Alexis Forge** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:25 am

Tone Deft wrote:oh yeah, ummm haven't touched that patch for a while, really the thing that Pepezabola and I came up with for L7 is MUCH better.

you should make the same thing in Reaktor, GREAT way to learn, start with a project in mind you want.

basically it's all about sending out notes in a coordinated fashion. also remember that the second click on a clip to make it automatically go to playback has to be entered AFTER it starts recording.

thanks

what's this one you did with Pepezabela?

Alexis Forge · Post by **Alexis Forge** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:27 am

m:o wrote:I think it mainly depends on what type of tools you're thinking of and
how much time you want to invest.

From what i know, Max has a slow learning
curve (at least if you're not so familiar with programing language), but can
do anything you could think of - pretty the best if you are willing to handle it.
That was my impression as i tried it and did the tutorials.

Reaktor is much more my route. Pretty visual and much like an modular
synth/effect/midi enviroment. Even if you "only" use building blocks you can
create quite complex, personal tools with a short learning curve. In R5 you can
dig ALOT deeper with NI's Core technology. Quite similar if not the same as Max.
Considering you can upgrade to R5 easily, i would do this.

But sure, in the end it depends on your need for your tools /purposes.
If you will have the need for the "all you can imagine with media and beyond" thing, MAX is for you.

thanks - not sure if upgrading is easy for me - for one I have NO money but secondly it's part of Komplete 2 so not even sure if I can without doing the whole bundle

synnack · Post by **synnack** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:30 am

Just to provoke rage from Tone...

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... c&start=30

Also there is the long term strategic possibility with Ableton if you know Max versus Reaktor.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:36 am

I don't understand, you earn a fail.

one thing about max is that it's definitely a use it or lose it kind of thing, given that forge is a musician first and a hacker type second, I'd also think Reaktor is the better investment.

synnack · Post by **synnack** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:40 am

I love you.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:46 am

OK, that pisses me off. you at least owe me dinner first, or send pics, SOMETHING!!!

this internet thing confuses the hell out of me.

the thing I was most impressed about jitter was the FREE user stuff and help files available. I haven't bought it yet but DAMN just the stuff already available is mind blowing.

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:18 am

I actually like Max/Msp much more than Reaktor. In theory Reaktor should be easier - just use modules (or even macros) and connect the dots. Cake.

But Max's logic appeals to me more. Which means I get more done. I got the academic license since I work at the university here in Malmo. That's a pretty sweet deal. Probably wouldn't have gotten it if it wasn't for that. Today I don't wanna be without it, though.

.m

glu · Post by **glu** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:56 am

Alexis Forge wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:IMO you can do more with less effort with Reaktor, but you can do more with max/msp than with Reaktor, it just takes more effort. dunno, I've only used max/msp. I've also heard is that Reaktor is a bunch of Legos to make stuff, max/msp is like owning the Lego factory.

learn your tools, save your money, LEARN Reaktor before moving onto max/msp. if you get to the point where you're feeling limited (doubt it) then get into max.

you can do what you're seeking with what you already have.

dude, wtf is up with the new login? pussy.

damnit
you can talk!

glu for life!