Distorted audio and unresponsive PC

[andy.m]

I have distorted audio and a totally unresponsive PC (with 100% CPU usage) when using more than a couple of effects and/or soft synths in Live under Windows XP. The problem is rather severe. The PC becomes completely unusable.

In order to optimize the PC I followed the advice in both Tascam's and Tarekith's guides on optimizing Windows XP for audio. Even after optimizing there was no improvement though.

In addition I was directed in the Tips & Tricks forum to read the post Diagnose and Optimization of Windows performance. This post gives some great advice on optimizing a Windows PC for use with Live.

I could only solve the conflict between the (unused) integrated audio chip and other peripherals. I disabled the on-board audio chip in BIOS. I could not resolve the other hardware conflicts. They are between the integrated video card and the AGP video card (I disabled the integrated video card in BIOS but the conflict is still there) and between the AGP video card and other peripherals on the motherboard (their settings cannot be changed in BIOS).

Full details can be found in the original post (warning: it's very long).

The minimum requirement for Live are:

Windows: 1.5 GHz CPU or faster, 512 MB RAM (1 GB recommended), Windows XP or Windows Vista, Windows compatible sound card (ASIO driver support recommended), QuickTime 6.5 or higher, DVD-ROM drive

My PC has the following features:

Pentium 4 2.4 GHz
1 GB RAM
120 + 300 GB 7200 RPM PATA Hard Disks
Ableton Live 7.0.5
Windows XP Pro SP2
M-Audio 410 FireWire
Yamaha S90 ES + Yamaha mLAN

Is my PC suitable for running Live? Does it just need to be (more) optimized, or do I have to upgrade it?

Thanks in advance.

[pj_player]

hmmm, you seem to have been unlucky with conflicts. however, you should be able to get reasonable performance with that cpu, so before junking the whole thing, i would try:

-a different video card
-add an extra gig of RAM

some things just aren't meant to be, though, and a new system might be all that can get live working how you want it. have you tried other audio software such as cubase or reaper to see if you still have problems? (sorry, can't be bothered to read the long thread).

[Timur]

Hey there, let's try to get your system going.

I could not resolve the other hardware conflicts. They are between the integrated video card and the AGP video card (I disabled the integrated video card in BIOS but the conflict is still there) and between the AGP video card and other peripherals on the motherboard (their settings cannot be changed in BIOS).

How do you know that? Does the onboard graphic still appear in Windows? If so then disable it via the device-manager. But I don't see it on the screenshot of your original post.

Your original thread shows that the Firewire interface shares an IRQ with a SCSI controller? Disable that SCSI controller (or make it use another resource/PCI slot).

What devices do you have connected to your USB ports?

Your original post's screenshot shows another audio-interface on IRQ 5. Like the onboard graphic that shouldn't even show up after disabling it in BIOS. But if disabling that in BIOS doesn't help then disable it via device-manager.

Disable the Realtek LAN interface via device-manager in order to check wether it affects performance.

[andy.m]

hmmm, you seem to have been unlucky with conflicts. however, you should be able to get reasonable performance with that cpu, so before junking the whole thing, i would try:

-a different video card

My motherboard is old, so I need an AGP 4x card. Luckily I have a spare AGP 4x video card. I am going to test it during the week-end. I can use it for testing only, however, as its fan is quite noisy (I replaced it with the Radeon 9000, that is a fanless one).

-add an extra gig of RAM

Can I still find RAM for such an old PC? Can increasing the RAM solve my issue, which seems non RAM-related? Which type of RAM do I need? BIOS says "Memory Frequency 266MHz for PC2100 DDR Memory FSB 533".

BTW, I tried CPU-Z to determine the RAM parameters. But CPU-Z crashes (Dr. Watson). I don't know Dr. Watson very well. Where do I find the Dr. Watson log in the system?

some things just aren't meant to be, though, and a new system might be all that can get live working how you want it. have you tried other audio software such as cubase or reaper to see if you still have problems? (sorry, can't be bothered to read the long thread).

I tried a demo of Cakewalk Sonar 7 and it has the same problems (distorted audio and unresponsive PC) when playing many audio tracks

[andy.m]

Hey there, let's try to get your system going.

Thank you so much for your interest!

I could not resolve the other hardware conflicts. They are between the integrated video card and the AGP video card (I disabled the integrated video card in BIOS but the conflict is still there) and between the AGP video card and other peripherals on the motherboard (their settings cannot be changed in BIOS).

How do you know that? Does the onboard graphic still appear in Windows? If so then disable it via the device-manager. But I don't see it on the screenshot of your original post.

The integrated video card does not appear in Device Manager (devmgmt.msc). It appears only in System Information (MsInfo32.exe) under "conflicts". Quite inconsistent. Confusing.





Reviewing the screenshots, the conflicting device is not the integrated video card but it is a "Processor to AGP Controller" device.

Your original thread shows that the Firewire interface shares an IRQ with a SCSI controller? Disable that SCSI controller (or make it use another resource/PCI slot).

Actually I have no SCSI controller. It is a RAID controller integrated on the motherboard. I disabled it from the BIOS, but MsInfo32.exe still shows it under "conflicts". And Device Manager still displays it, even if I didn't install a driver for it (confusing, again). Its slot cannot be changed, of course, as it is integrated in the motherboard. How do I change the resource assigned to it?

What devices do you have connected to your USB ports?

Only an USB mouse. And a scanner, only when needed. Previously I connected the S90 ES via USB but I had some digital noise (ground loop between PC, S90 ES and audio mixer, all with unbalanced audio connections). So I bought the mLAN interface

Your original post's screenshot shows another audio-interface on IRQ 5. Like the onboard graphic that shouldn't even show up after disabling it in BIOS. But if disabling that in BIOS doesn't help then disable it via device-manager.

I disabled the integrated audio interface via BIOS. This is the only conflict I could resolve.

Disable the Realtek LAN interface via device-manager in order to check wether it affects performance.

Disabling the Realtek LAN interface via device-manager does not seem to help.

[andy.m]

I started fiddling with the BIOS, something that I never did on this PC (I also took some photos of the BIOS screens with my cell phone, in order to remember all settings). I have an Award BIOS (6.00 PG).

I started searching for Award BIOS upgrades. I went to The Official BIOS Update and Support Center for Phoenix-Award BIOS and AMI BIOS. I installed the Firefox extension named "DriverAgent Plugin for Firefox and Opera". When I run the scan, I was assigned a ticket number.

They invite you to fill a form in order to go ahead with the update process. I didn't fill the form. I went to the page on DriverAgent instead where, with the same ticket number, the situation of my PC was detailed. Only driver versions are checked. No mention about the BIOS. Is it up to date or not? To continue downloading updated drivers, filling a form is still required. Since I don't want to give my personal information, I searched for new drivers manually.

I don't trust this scan very much. I have an AudioSystem EWX 26/96 PCI soundcard installed (but I seldom use it). I updated the driver from 5.40.03.130 to 5.46.03.137. After the upgrade, the eSupport scan still says the driver is out of date. I am keeping the list as a hint for manual driver update, however.

[Timur]

If the RAID and onboard audio still show up in device-manager then you should disable them there (if you don't need them that is).

Also try the PCI Latency Tool or Double Dawg to set the PCI Latency of your AGP graphic-card to some reasonable value like 32 or 64. Graphic-card drivers tend to set these to maximum values which especially conflicts with audio-interfaces.

[andy.m]

I think I located the problem. Audio is distorted when using FireWire audio. It is OK using a PCI soundcard. I actually have 3 audio devices:
M-Audio 410 (FireWire)
Yamaha mLAN (FireWire)
AudioSystem 24/96 (PCI)

So there should be some conflict with the FireWire controller. The FireWire controller has a TI chipset. Here is the device tree:



Disabling the “1394 Net Adapter” does not seem to help.

I should investigate more about the FireWire conflicts. Which tools can I use?

[Timur]

Is the Firewire controller onboard? Try to find out wether it's sharing a "physical" IRQ line with other onboard devices like described in my optimization thread. Also try to make it change it's IRQ number by activating/deactivating some devices in BIOS. IRQ 5 is of relative low priority (and I actually wonder that windows uses it for USB and FW on a ACPI system anyway). The priorities of IRQ are also listed in the optimization thread. Does your Windows use any IRQs higher than 16 anyway?

Did you try to change the PCI latency of your AGP card yet? It will can compromise any PCI-bus device including the FW controller. Also try deactivating some video accelleration via Windows' display settings (-> Troubleshooting).

[andy.m]

Is the Firewire controller onboard? Try to find out wether it's sharing a "physical" IRQ line with other onboard devices like described in my optimization thread. Also try to make it change it's IRQ number by activating/deactivating some devices in BIOS. IRQ 5 is of relative low priority (and I actually wonder that windows uses it for USB and FW on a ACPI system anyway). The priorities of IRQ are also listed in the optimization thread.

The FireWire controller is on a PCI card. In the optimization thread, and on my motherboard/BIOS manual too, I found a table that is somewhat confusing. The table has columns labelled INT A, INT B, ..., INT H and rows labelled AGP slot, AC97/MC97, PCI slot 1, ..., PCI slot 6 (the same entries found in the BIOS setup screen), plus many more onboard devices, and checkboxes in the cells. What does it mean? Are INT A, INT B, ..., INT H just "placeholders", or "dummy variables" indicating that, if you choose an IRQ for a device, all the other devices will share the same interrupt (what you called sharing a physical IRQ line)? If, for example, AGP slot and PCI slot 3 share the same INT A interrupt, If I choose IRQ 3 for the AGP slot, will PCI slot 3 use IRQ 3 as well? But in the BIOS setup screen there are two different entries to choose the IRQ for the AGP slot and the PCI slot 3 independently. In the BIOS setup you can change the IRQ (INT) setting for AGP slot, AC97/MC97, PCI slot 1, ..., PCI slot 6. So, has that table a different meaning?

Does your Windows use any IRQs higher than 16 anyway?

No, System Information (msinfo32.exe) reports IRQ 0 to IRQ 15.

Did you try to change the PCI latency of your AGP card yet? It will can compromise any PCI-bus device including the FW controller. Also try deactivating some video accelleration via Windows' display settings (-> Troubleshooting).

I changed the PCI latency for the video card from 255 to 32 (and for the LAN card too). It didn’t help. Also I deactivated some video acceleration (desk.cpl > Advanced > Troubleshooting) but the situation didn't change.

[Timur]

The FireWire controller is on a PCI card. In the optimization thread, and on my motherboard/BIOS manual too, I found a table that is somewhat confusing. The table has columns labelled INT A, INT B, ..., INT H and rows labelled AGP slot, AC97/MC97, PCI slot 1, ..., PCI slot 6 (the same entries found in the BIOS setup screen), plus many more onboard devices, and checkboxes in the cells. What does it mean? Are INT A, INT B, ..., INT H just "placeholders", or "dummy variables" indicating that, if you choose an IRQ for a device, all the other devices will share the same interrupt (what you called sharing a physical IRQ line)?

Yes, you understood that right. The devices don't necessarily have to share the same IRQ number (some BIOS and certain Windows configurations allow that to be changed), but usually they will. What they do is they share one physical line to the interrupt controller, so all devices that are in the same colomn send their interrupt signal over one line. So you really want to put your FW-controller card into a PCI slot that shares as little as possible with other devices.

If, for example, AGP slot and PCI slot 3 share the same INT A interrupt, If I choose IRQ 3 for the AGP slot, will PCI slot 3 use IRQ 3 as well? But in the BIOS setup screen there are two different entries to choose the IRQ for the AGP slot and the PCI slot 3 independently. In the BIOS setup you can change the IRQ (INT) setting for AGP slot, AC97/MC97, PCI slot 1, ..., PCI slot 6. So, has that table a different meaning?

Some BIOS allow these to be changed manually and set independently, that's an advantage, but putting your FW-card into a slow that doesn't share with the AGP-card is alot better.

No, System Information (msinfo32.exe) reports IRQ 0 to IRQ 15.

That means that your mainboard doesn't support extended (virtual) IRQs above IRQ15 (or your Windows is not configured as ACPI). That's not necessarily bad, you just have to make sure that you free up as many unused IRQs as possible. Turn off the COM ports and the parallel printer port in BIOS if you don't use them for example. And since your BIOS allows you to set IRQ numbers for the PCI slots you should chose a high priority number for your FW-card. There is a table in the optimization thread that shows that IRQs 10-15 are higher priority than 3-8. If you ain't using the onboard MPU-401 Midi controller then chose IRQ10 for the FW-card, else chose IRQ11 and give 10 to the MPU-401.

If you are using an onboard MPU-401 Midi controller (very good idea!) then make sure to use IRQ 10 and not IRQ 5 via BIOS.

This is the priority order of IRQ (highest priorities first) which can also be found on the list on the above post ("Priority" coloum). This means that IRQ with higher priority are handled before IRQ of lower priority if two devices invoke an interrupt at the same time!

IRQ 0 - 2
IRQ 9 - 15
IRQ 3 - 8

As you may notice IRQ 10 has a higher priority than most other devices (only superseeded by the System Timer and Keyboard Controller). You may also want to use a PS/2 keyboard instead of an USB one when controlling Live (any DAW) via computer-keyboard, because it will use IRQ 1 instead of the lower priority IRQ of the USB controller then.

IRQs 16 -23 are handled by Windows via ACPI which usually uses IRQ 9 itself. I do not know if these use the priority of IRQ 9, a priority lower than 15 but higher than 3, or a priority lower than everything else. Your only way to handle these manually is to turn off ACPI in Windows, so it doesn't matter that much anyway. Turning off ACPI will result in losing IRQ 16-23, which might lead to more problems with shared IRQs, but might also lead to less problems (because in this irq-sharing is not handled virtually by Windows, but physically). If you want to know which of these virtual IRQs share a physical IRQ have a look at the boot-screen of your desktop PC right before Windows boots (notebooks usually don't list IRQs there). If it's too fast for you use the PAUSE key on your keyboard.

[andy.m]

Turn off the COM ports and the parallel printer port in BIOS if you don't use them for example. And since your BIOS allows you to set IRQ numbers for the PCI slots you should chose a high priority number for your FW-card. There is a table in the optimization thread that shows that IRQs 10-15 are higher priority than 3-8. If you ain't using the onboard MPU-401 Midi controller then chose IRQ10 for the FW-card, else chose IRQ11 and give 10 to the MPU-401.

From the BIOS setup screen I disabled all the unused devices I could: onboard serial ports (IRQ 3 and IRQ 4), onboard parallel port (IRQ 7) and USB keyboard support. The conflict on IRQ5, the interrupt previously used by the FireWire controller, now (mysteriously) disappeared, maybe because of the "Auto" BIOS settings that reassigned all the interrupts, but the problem with FireWire audio remains. Audio is good only using the PCI card (that now has IRQ 5 assigned to it).

I still didn't open the PC case. I am going to change the slot of the FireWire controller, but both IRQ 10 and IRQ 11 are already taken. I am going to use IRQ 12, which is free (from System Information).

If you are using an onboard MPU-401 Midi controller (very good idea!) then make sure to use IRQ 10 and not IRQ 5 via BIOS.

This is the priority order of IRQ (highest priorities first) which can also be found on the list on the above post ("Priority" coloum). This means that IRQ with higher priority are handled before IRQ of lower priority if two devices invoke an interrupt at the same time!

IRQ 0 - 2
IRQ 9 - 15
IRQ 3 - 8

As you may notice IRQ 10 has a higher priority than most other devices (only superseeded by the System Timer and Keyboard Controller). You may also want to use a PS/2 keyboard instead of an USB one when controlling Live (any DAW) via computer-keyboard, because it will use IRQ 1 instead of the lower priority IRQ of the USB controller then.

From the above post, I understand that the way Windows operating system handles interrupts is with the following priorities:

IRQ 0 System timer
IRQ 1 Keyboard
IRQ 2
IRQ 9
IRQ 10
IRQ 11
IRQ 12
IRQ 13
IRQ 14
IRQ 15
IRQ 3
IRQ 4
IRQ 5
IRQ 6
IRQ 7
IRQ 8

Is this correct?

[andy.m]

I changed the slot of the PCI FireWire controller. I inserted it in a slot that, according to the manual, does not share its interrupt with anything else. I forced that slot to use IRQ 12 in the BIOS setup screen, but after the POST screen the BIOS keeps telling that the "Serial Bus Cntrlr" has IRQ 7 assigned to it. System Information in Windows displays the same IRQ 7 assigned to the PCI FireWire controller.

After this hardware change the situation didn't improve, and the FireWire audio problem is still here.

[andy.m]

No, System Information (msinfo32.exe) reports IRQ 0 to IRQ 15.

That means that your mainboard doesn't support extended (virtual) IRQs above IRQ15 (or your Windows is not configured as ACPI).

I have an ACPI HAL installed in Windows. Can it be related to the problem?

[Timur]

Usually the ACPI HAL is right. Some older mainboard had problems with it. You can force Windows to discard it though by replacing the ACPI driver with the "Standard PC" driver. This will disable all advanced power-managment features of Windows though, but some systems were reported to give better performance after that. Changing the driver could lead to you not being able to boot into Windows anymore though, so make sure you do a backup and have the Windows CD at hand for a repair installation if you try this.

I'd try another FW-card first though. It doesn't only depend on the FW-chipset but also on the implementation on the card if it performs good. If your card uses an Agere FW800 chipset then this could be the culprit, because there are known to cause troubles with FW audio-interfaces.