tempo detection

[musiker01]

As far as I see it there is no possibility as of yet to determine Live's tempo by recording the first loop. It would be great if you could just play and Live would calculate the tempo on the fly by dividing the length of the loop by 4 (or whatever other default measure you would assign to the set). This would introduce a small delay but I'm sure there would be ways to handle this. It would dispose of the need to use a click track and would make Live more of a real live instrument.

What do others think?

Axl

[chapelier fou]

It should be THE condition to consider live as a real livelooping instrument.
PLUS ONE.

[circuitb]

you need to use an external hardware loop device

echoplex /jaman /Electrix Repeater
with a midi sync out....

but the tempo fluctuation can cause troubles (cpu peak etc...)
and see my post on sync lost..

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=98823

[chapelier fou]

Yes, but we wish it would be possible in ABLEton....

[circuitb]

of course it could be great directly in live

in previous version there was an option on audio clips
something like "master" tempo, that mean the live set tempo
was set by the internal tempo of the master audio clip...
but this feature seems to be abandoned....in Live 7

[chapelier fou]

Uh... I thought it was introduced in live 7... That's one of the reasons why I bought it, but I have been disapointed because this function is actually useless.

[musiker01]

in previous version there was an option on audio clips
something like "master" tempo, that mean the live set tempo
was set by the internal tempo of the master audio clip...
but this feature seems to be abandoned....in Live 7

Uh... I thought it was introduced in live 7... That's one of the reasons why I bought it, but I have been disapointed because this function is actually useless.

Could you expand on that, please? I only own Live since version 7. I've never heard or read about such a function. Also, I can't find it in my preferences.

Axl

[andy_bingham]

If they could incorporate into Live, what the "InTime" piece of Software does, that would be AMAZING!!! DO IT!!!

Here's a link, if ya want to take a look:

http://www.circular-logic.com/index.html

Andy

[Amaury]

of course it could be great directly in live

in previous version there was an option on audio clips
something like "master" tempo, that mean the live set tempo
was set by the internal tempo of the master audio clip...
but this feature seems to be abandoned....in Live 7

Hello,

It's not at all abandoned, but is available for Arranger clips only. If I remember well, it was introduced in Live 6.

I feel thought that the "Master clip" topic does not really help the "first recording sets tempo" topic. Do you see things otherwise?

Kind regards,
Amaury

[Opus]

If they could incorporate into Live, what the "InTime" piece of Software does, that would be AMAZING!!! DO IT!!!

Here's a link, if ya want to take a look:

http://www.circular-logic.com/index.html

Andy

very interesting. I was wondering is someone out there had started to work on this idea yet. i'm sure the software will develop and eventually work it's way into all sequencers and DAWs.
Everyone knows, and can agree that recording to click tracks is not so fun. It actually constrains the creative work flow process when trying to come up with a new beat or melody from scratch. Unfortunately, for now, there is really only one way to record live looping in a performance. You must have a click track. Ideally, a hi-hat or simple percussion loop is preferable, at least have it monitored through separate channel (stage monitor/headphones) if you don't want the crowd to hear the loop. From there, you just have to play along. But remember to have an assigned midi trigger for the "tap tempo" feature in Ableton, because it is the easiest way to get the tempo matching the one in your head. And I can't think of any other way to record live without a click/tempo track until they learn to program code that analyzes peaks in audio and midi signals with extensive calculations in the background. If the guys at circular logic are doing it, i'm sure Ableton will notice and hopefully implement this code when they iron out the quarks.


BUT, if you are in the studio, and are jamming around or feel creative, i do have a little trick I'll share with all of you. I think I posted it on a previous thread, but i think it got buried a while ago. This is a trick I used to use in Cubase, and am very pleased that I can still perform this with Ableton.

First: Turn the metronome/click track OFF.

Second: Choose a midi instrument to start a song with, and arm it to record, whether it be a midi drum track, or any other midi instrument, internal or external.

Third: Hit record

Fourth: Turn away from the computer screen. At this point, you should completely forget that you are recording. Go ahead and jam for a while. A few minutes, or hours even. Not to worry, because, midi data takes up no more space than text files. You can record for years and never come close to filling a few gigs of HD space.

Fifth: After you feel like you've done some good jammin, and created some good beats and riffs, or you're tired of playing, go ahead and hit "stop".

Sixth: Go to start, and play back the midi you just recorded, and listen. Just pretend it's audio at this point.

Seventh: Once you hear a part that you like and you think is worthy of making a track from, hit pause, and select the bars/notes that sound good to you. Make sure you know which note is the down beat, select from there to the down beat of the last loop. Then right click and select "stretch notes". As long as you can hear the down beats in the midi, you should easily be able to stretch and place the notes to their according places in the sequence. Then set your loops markers.

And that's it, your midi is now synced properly, and a click track was never used. The only problem with this process is that, after the midi has been time stretched, the original tempo is lost. You can always manually adjust the tempo to match the one in your head when you started recording, but the best way to accomplish this is to hit the tap tempo button a few times before you record your midi. This will help ensure your midi data will stay at relatively the same tempo after stretching.

I think Ableton needs to add a feature to Live that would allow you to lock midi data to clock/time, and not tempo. This way, the track can be adjusted to fit the tempo of the recorded midi. This would really change the way people make music at home. Click tracks can really destroy the creative process, but they are saviors for live performance.

[replicant6]

This would be great. Also, a simple 'Beat Detect' plugin like the one in Logic that measures the BPM and displays it. But auto beat-detect/sync would rule

R6

[musiker01]

Sorry for abandoning my own thread for so long. I should consider checking the notify box.

Nice to see people showing interest in the idea.

And I can't think of any other way to record live without a click/tempo track until they learn to program code that analyzes peaks in audio and midi signals with extensive calculations in the background. If the guys at circular logic are doing it, i'm sure Ableton will notice and hopefully implement this code when they iron out the quarks.

I remember Nick Collins also doing something like that in Supercollider. But what I imagine would need no fancy analyzing logic just simple dividing of the first loops buffer length by the number of beats you determine as the set's default. I'm sure this would be relatively easy to accomplish.

[Venetian]

Hi,

I have been working on B-Keeper system for Live. This changes tempo of Live to sync to a drummer.

www.youtube.com/bkeepersystem

It's like InTime, but dedicated to drums, so it looks for drums on relevant beats etc and syncs as close as possible. You need that to remain tight.

my email
andrew.robertson at elec.qmul.ac.uk

I could also do with testing it out in London with people who have Live and a drummer..?
I'm playing gig using it tonight at Proud Galleries, so we'll see how it goes..!
Andrew

[musiker01]

Hi,

I have been working on B-Keeper system for Live. This changes tempo of Live to sync to a drummer.

www.youtube.com/bkeepersystem

It's like InTime, but dedicated to drums, so it looks for drums on relevant beats etc and syncs as close as possible. You need that to remain tight.

my email
andrew.robertson at elec.qmul.ac.uk

I could also do with testing it out in London with people who have Live and a drummer..?
I'm playing gig using it tonight at Proud Galleries, so we'll see how it goes..!
Andrew

The videos sound promising. Do you use Midi Triggers on the drums or do you actually analyze the audiostream?

Unfortunately, I'm only in small town Germany and not a drummer. So no testing for me

[samplehead]

Hi,

I have been working on B-Keeper system for Live. This changes tempo of Live to sync to a drummer.

www.youtube.com/bkeepersystem

It's like InTime, but dedicated to drums, so it looks for drums on relevant beats etc and syncs as close as possible. You need that to remain tight.

my email
andrew.robertson at elec.qmul.ac.uk

I could also do with testing it out in London with people who have Live and a drummer..?
I'm playing gig using it tonight at Proud Galleries, so we'll see how it goes..!
Andrew

Hi Andrew, this looks very promising. Would it work with a foot stomp pedal? (i.e. I use a piece of wood with a mic in it, and stomp my foot to make a bass drum beat).

Cheers,
Pete