Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Tone Deft
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:09 pm

diskowipe wrote:you know somethings up when a company has to publish an audio fact sheet about their program because so many people complain...
that's retarded. there's nothing in that fact sheet that's surprising, it's merely a guide on how to use Live.

you've stated nothing substantial in this thread. you're not a complete noob, I'll give you that but you don't know enough to make a proper argument. you know enough to know there are problems but you can't actually pin a single problem down.

examples or stfu.
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[nis]
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by [nis] » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:14 pm

diskowipe wrote:seriously though guys...

ableton cant even handle bussing without degrading the signal. says it plain as day in the reference manual. summing at more than one mix point is not neutral. complete crap

you know somethings up when a company has to publish an audio fact sheet about their program because so many people complain...
Summing is a non-neutral operation as in any other host. I suggest to study digital signal processing and provide enough technically proved evidence before you criticize other people's work and post wrong information on the internet.
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leisuremuffin
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by leisuremuffin » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:16 pm

[nis] wrote:
leisuremuffin wrote:
leedsquietman wrote:Good analog practices, such as leaving headroom and keeping track faders below the master fader still apply in the digital domain. (Gannon Kashiwa, digidesign head of marketing quoted from the mixing engineer's handbook 2nd edition by Bobby Owsinski).


I would have to disagree that you need to keep the track faders below the master. I still mix this way out of habit, but it is not going to make a bit of difference on anything using 32bit floating point where you put the master fader so long as the levels leaving the program are good. Shit, you can have 3 utility plugs with the gain turned all the way up on a track and put 3 utilities on the master turned all the way down to bring it back -----> without degrading the signal. go ahead and try it yourself. Don't try to tell me that i can't put that master fader wherever the fuck i want to.
Yes, but there is a safety limit at +60 dB (or was it +64 dB?). Anything below that won't distort as long as it doesn't pass your DA converters. However, some "vintage" plugins may apply more distortion on higher levels, so you might want to keep it below 0 dBFS anyways.


ah, that's right, my mistake. so actually a little less than 2 util effects all the way up on a track and two all the way down on the master. If you try this though, you'll see that the individual track being ALL the way into the red doesn't even matter until it is at EXTREME levels...


.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

diskowipe
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by diskowipe » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:21 pm

[nis] wrote:
diskowipe wrote:seriously though guys...

ableton cant even handle bussing without degrading the signal. says it plain as day in the reference manual. summing at more than one mix point is not neutral. complete crap

you know somethings up when a company has to publish an audio fact sheet about their program because so many people complain...
Summing is a non-neutral operation as in any other host. I suggest to study digital signal processing and provide enough technically proved evidence before you criticize other people's work and post wrong information on the internet.
what wrong information did i post? i wasnt talking about other programs. i took that straight from your reference manual

i know summing is not neutral in any application. thats why programs sound different.

tell that to the rest of your users

according to your reference manual. summing "is" neutral if you are only using one mix point (master)
:? :roll:
Last edited by diskowipe on Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

3phase
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by 3phase » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:23 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
diskowipe wrote:you know somethings up when a company has to publish an audio fact sheet about their program because so many people complain...
that's retarded. there's nothing in that fact sheet that's surprising, it's merely a guide on how to use Live.

you've stated nothing substantial in this thread. you're not a complete noob, I'll give you that but you don't know enough to make a proper argument. you know enough to know there are problems but you can't actually pin a single problem down.

examples or stfu.

The midi factsheet is a rather bad joke to tell the least... naming certain problems as unsolveable facts and claiming ableton live to be superior by achiving less than 5 ms midi jitter while beeing silent about that the other competitors have much better data there since decades without even the need to talk about.
Between the lines the midi fact sheet reaads like :

#midi sucks on this program


I dont know if the same can be apllied tp the audio fact sheet... but opposite to the midi one it dont gives any technical data.. is that a good or a bad sign?

when the same can be applied to the audio fact sheet ableton must have some kind of unsolveable problem with that...


Regarding 32bit floating point audio and its audio drawbacks when having an open gain structure was some interestink articles and book from theese Rane guy...

If its true what he claims there its not a wise choice to handle the levels in a daw like Ableton is doing it in Life
Last edited by 3phase on Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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diskowipe
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by diskowipe » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:24 pm

check this out guys

this = amazing monolake track

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SZjSjguFa8

listen to the depth of the sound in this track compared to the new album.

i would bet anything this did not come out of ableton live. period

i was not trying to bash monolake as he is incredible. i just think his last releases dont sound too hot compared to the past

[nis]
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by [nis] » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:29 pm

diskowipe wrote:
i know summing is not neutral in any application. thats why programs sound different.
False. Using the exact same settings results in identical audio files. Digital audio is pure math as in 1+1. Sorry to disappoint you.
Nico Starke
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Tone Deft
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:30 pm

3phase wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:
diskowipe wrote:you know somethings up when a company has to publish an audio fact sheet about their program because so many people complain...
that's retarded. there's nothing in that fact sheet that's surprising, it's merely a guide on how to use Live.

you've stated nothing substantial in this thread. you're not a complete noob, I'll give you that but you don't know enough to make a proper argument. you know enough to know there are problems but you can't actually pin a single problem down.

examples or stfu.

The midi factsheet is a rather bad joke to tell the least... naming certain problems as unsolveable facts and claiming ableton live to be superior by achiving less than 5 ms midi jitter while beeing silent about that the other competitors have much better data there since decades without even the need to talk about.
Between the lines the midi fact sheet reaads like :

#midi sucks on this program


I dont know if the same can be apllied tp the audio fact sheet... but opposite to the midi one it dont gives any technical data.. is that a good or a bad sign?

when the same can be applied to the audio fact sheet ableton must have some kind of unsolveable problem with that...


Regarding 32bit floating point audio and its audio drawbacks when having an open gain structure was some interestink articles and book from theese Rane guy...

If its true what he claims there its not a wise choice to handle the levels in a daw like Ableton is doing it in Life
please stop typing with your feet, read your replies before you post, edit them and try again. what the hell are you talking about? I pretty much disagree with everything you post, this is no different.

now the fuckwits are picking on the white papers. :roll:

the white papers are topics that can exist with any DAW, the only difference is that Ableton is up front about those topics.
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At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
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diskowipe
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by diskowipe » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:32 pm

[nis] wrote:
diskowipe wrote:
i know summing is not neutral in any application. thats why programs sound different.
False. Using the exact same settings results in identical audio files. Digital audio is pure math as in 1+1. Sorry to disappoint you.
ok you said earlier it was non neutral

i understand summing. if you read my earlier posts i said the problem with ableton is NOT summing related.

i agreed with you in that post just cause i saw you work for ableton :roll:

im done with the thread. i've doubled my total posts just in this thread

the only other posts i ever made on this site were trying to figure out why my drum machines dont sync with your software

they sync perfectly with sonar and samplitude. all the midi fact sheets and explanations in the world dont change that

3phase
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by 3phase » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:33 pm

just read the midi fact sheet from ableton and tell me that its no joke
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[nis]
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by [nis] » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:37 pm

diskowipe wrote:
[nis] wrote:
diskowipe wrote:
i know summing is not neutral in any application. thats why programs sound different.
False. Using the exact same settings results in identical audio files. Digital audio is pure math as in 1+1. Sorry to disappoint you.
ok you said earlier it was non neutral

i understand summing. if you read my earlier posts i said the problem with ableton is NOT summing related.

i agreed with you in that post just cause i saw you work for ableton :roll:

im done with the thread. i've doubled my total posts just in this thread

the only other posts i ever made on this site were trying to figure out why my drum machines dont sync with your software

they sync perfectly with sonar and samplitude. all the midi fact sheets and explanations in the world dont change that
Ok. Bye.
Nico Starke
Ableton Product Team

Tone Deft
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:39 pm

3phase wrote:just read the midi fact sheet from ableton and tell me that its no joke
just for you I'm going to go read it again.

this is scary, I went to google "ableton live midi fact sheet" and the posts we've made in the last few minutes are showing up in the google search. WHAT?!?!

found it
http://downloads.ableton.com/manuals/70 ... eet_en.pdf
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At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
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kb420
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by kb420 » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:40 pm

diskowipe wrote:
im done with the thread. i've doubled my total posts just in this thread


OK! Don't let the doorknob hit you on the ass on your way out!!!!!!!
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger..........."
-Friedrich Nietzsche-

diskowipe
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by diskowipe » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:41 pm

[nis] wrote: Ok. Bye.
keep up that good marketing

diskowipe
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Re: Samplitude user disses Live as 'shit for mixing in' at GS

Post by diskowipe » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:42 pm

kb420 wrote:
diskowipe wrote:
im done with the thread. i've doubled my total posts just in this thread


OK! Don't let the doorknob hit you on the ass on your way out!!!!!!!
i wont...

have fun at the football game

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