Petition.. Improove Lives ability as a Live tool !!!

[hoffman2k]

Hey Hoffman, what is the M4L device you are referring to? Is it the one that assigns midi cc's to Live device parameters and records the cc's?

Not a specific device, but the one you mentioned would be an example. My Clip Mapper too.
It uses an object called live.remote~ which allows us to control almost any device parameter at audio rates. In other words, faster than MIDI Scripts to update a parameter in Live.
So session automation is half there. They still have to solve the problem about how to handle absolute versus relative envelopes, but the ability to hijack a parameter for that purpose is now there. Brought to you by Cycling 74 and Ableton. I can't wait for Live 9. Fingers crossed!

?? really? and this runs stable? not so long ago, a few weeks or so, L8.1 was crashing all over just without max..
and with max in the backround dealing with this deep inside clipautomation stuff its getting better?

besides... you have to pay 300 euro to get clipautomation than.. might be even worth it :-/

but sorry.. how can such a thing be stable? just have a look in the bug forums... i dont appears to be a stage option wright now.. at least not for the users that have issues with L8..

in case there are really users that have none...

Don't be amazed that you find bug reports in the bugs section. That is what it is for. You'd be amazed at how stable M4L actually is. Just some small examples of the types of code people are executing for their projects: JavaScript, processing, Max scripting, C++ and homemade externals.

Another reason why you shouldn't discredit M4L. We're doing all sorts of crazy shit to try to make Live crash. If it crashes it needs fixing too.
Some M4L are having issues with Live, but so are you. And you had them before M4L came out. They probably did too. Some things are just more noticeable because of M4L because we can now make built in analysis tools if required. M4L crashes too, but not as frequently as you would hope it to be.

[3phase]

M4L is the best addition to Live for Live performance since Racks. And ironically we still can't access racks with M4L (or OSC for that matter). If you like it or not, improvements to both Max and Live will pay of for ALL Live users.
People were having problems long before 8.1. Many claim nothing has rocked since 7.0.18.
M4L isn't the cause of stability issues and I WISH Ableton would actually spend some more development resources on M4L.
All I'm hearing is the opposite of what is happening in the real world.

maybe so for the owners of mfl.. i defenetly agree that there is potential..especially with the rudimetary software implementation of the dedicated ableton controlers..
BUT... besides of special customisation...

Isnt this kind of gui acces not integral part of the instrument design and should be performed by the manufactor?


And regarding the stability issue..it is true that this was there with L8.0 allready.. but it got even worse with L.8.1

so instead fixing 8.. the mfl version was pushed thru..
So max for live is defently part of the problem and not the solution to it.
So i am actually pretty anti max.. because of L8.. not because max is a bad program

When i ever i become a mfl user that might change..but after the experiance of the past i am really not into further investments in software wright now..
just bought a kaoss pad 3.. thats a great little device.. sure you can do all this with mfl and your clumsi launchpad..
but straight out of the box?

[3phase]

[ M4L crashes too, but not as frequently as you would hope it to be.

??? i hope for crashs? no way.. i hate them..

i have my atari here in the studio runing since last juli.. non stop.. i just decided to see how long that lasts without a crash.. its in sync.. runs ..and runs ..and runs...

I wish to see this kind of stability for LIVE and MAX and every other music software out there..

with modenr computers probably just wishfull thinking.. the reality is rather that it works for a while..and after 3-4 years everything goes balistic again.. driver trouble here..os trouble there ..timecode problem again.. aso...

[beats me]

Ableton should just hire a coder per user that can cater to their every whim.

[hoffman2k]

And regarding the stability issue..it is true that this was there with L8.0 allready.. but it got even worse with L.8.1

You mean when they changed the file format to incorporate Serato Live support. Because I'm not sure how many times you must be told, but unless you have M4L activated and loaded, ITS NOT DOING ANYTHING!

so instead fixing 8.. the mfl version was pushed thru..
So max for live is defently part of the problem and not the solution to it.
So i am actually pretty anti max.. because of L8.. not because max is a bad program

Pushed thru? You're joking right? How much time since the first announcement and the release? 2.5 years?

So there we have it, you're "anti-max" because of something you believe but can't prove and isn't even logically correct. You realize this but like myself are as stubborn as a mule and will stick to your guns.

Ah well. You'd actually be surprised how much I really care for Live to be stable for you. But you're fighting the wrong battle. At least your bug reports are getting more resolved each day.

In regards to the Atari stuff. Tell me, which Audio/MIDI drivers is it using? I'll answer that one for you. None.. Dedicated chips For The Win!

[Tone Deft]

3phase - please do rant to Ableton about REAL problems you're having, it makes my version of Live that much more stable.

please stop posting about about max4Live until you use it. you don't know how it was integrated into Live, you don't know how it was coded, you don't know how it works, you don't know a damn thing about it. you're only weakening your arguments by mentioning it.

happy monday.

[3phase]

Ableton should just hire a coder per user that can cater to their every whim.

thats actualy what they did in the past what actually leaded to the problem.. i rather would suggest to get back to instrument design.. further designing the instrument instead further design of software problems..

That was actually what Live 1 was so great for.. that it was rather ment as an instrument ..not as a DAW or programming enviroment..


Of cause its better that ist a DAW now.. and has a rudimetary midi that finaly works..except of bad event placement from time to time :-/..

But the initial aproach of designing an instrument one can use on stage still should be the main agenda..

fx and istrument racks are nice.. but thats just gimmicks..

You have to see that the FILe loading while playing in a sequencer was introduced in the 80´s..

first software sequencer i know that had that feature was the C-64 supertrack from lengling..
so that the live playing musican was able to load a new set while still having one running...

a very basic feature non of the modern DAW´s is even mentioning anymore..but the all can do that..
Its an old feature..ancient..

The only DAW on the market that forces you to put all your projekts into one session is ableton live..
In this regard Logic or cubase are the beter live on stage sequencers...

The user wish to deal with this is as old as the program.. it constantly reapears on the wishist in the one form or the other..
Its allmost the 10th year aniversary of abeton live.. and we still are in the dark ages when it comes to file handling on stage.. but we have max for live...

I really think that quality can be achived exactly at this basics points.. gimmicks make fore fun than

[3phase]

So there we have it, you're "anti-max" because of something you believe but can't prove and isn't even logically correct. You realize this but like myself are as stubborn as a mule and will stick to your guns.

Ah well. You'd actually be surprised how much I really care for Live to be stable for you. But you're fighting the wrong battle. At least your bug reports are getting more resolved each day.

In regards to the Atari stuff. Tell me, which Audio/MIDI drivers is it using? I'll answer that one for you. None.. Dedicated chips For The Win!

1) when i buy controlers like the APC or lunchpad and the first thing they say to me is .."Buy max for live"
i really cant see that as an accident... Because Ableton has prooved that they are not stupid or bad designers.
And now here in the therad again. you can have clip automation litlle one.. buy max for life...
sorry... i am really to stubborn to react on that..rather the opposite.. and this is pretty logical for me.

2) my bug reports have the same style and dense of information since years.. there has nothing changed..
and i defently dont fight the wrong battle.. There are many aspects that make a software good.. and this thread is actually ment to look at some basic places .. unlimited features are no good. i want a good designed set of features ..that leave me without pain..
I getting tired of computer trouble.. maybe i am to critical.. maybe my skin got extra thin after dealing with sequencer related troubles on stage since 1983.. I had the bad luck to be a small budgeted guy at the bleedig edge of technolgy ... and i am sick of bleeding.. I like cool implemetions and artificial intelligence.
If you dont know opcode studio vision have a look at it..well done in many regards.. just the recording is american..
( "are you sure?" )

3) i know that the atari has to win.. but only mega st´s... the 1024´s was crashing all the time.. the autosafe function was invented for ataris.. but there was a development towards an extremly high degree of stability.. a constant progress..

there are actually still people that use the atari for HD recording with the yamaha CBX devices..

[Poster]

And now here in the therad again. you can have clip automation litlle one.. buy max for life...
sorry... i am really to stubborn to react on that..rather the opposite.. and this is pretty logical for me.

you really don't have a clue.. clip automation with MFL was never intended to fix the issue..
afaik it was just smart coding of users.. it's actually far from ideal and I'm sure Ableton will never just leave it at that..

maybe my skin got extra thin after dealing with sequencer related troubles on stage since 1983..

you're nothing but a trouble magnet that constantly makes sure to always be charged with the opposite pole of problems..
I really don't feel sorry for you and your act is getting beyond pathetic really..

if you're struggling since the 80's and you can't even get a proper act together with today's software,



you never will..

[hoffman2k]

1) when i buy controlers like the APC or lunchpad and the first thing they say to me is .."Buy max for live"
i really cant see that as an accident... Because Ableton has prooved that they are not stupid or bad designers.
And now here in the therad again. you can have clip automation litlle one.. buy max for life...
sorry... i am really to stubborn to react on that..rather the opposite.. and this is pretty logical for me.

The Launchpad works without M4L. It even works with Numerology.

Session recording isn't in M4L. Its just a patch that takes CC's from Clips and turns it into remote data. It completely hijacks a parameter.
It was added at the very last stages of M4L development and before that we were told that such a thing would require a rewrite..

2) my bug reports have the same style and dense of information since years.. there has nothing changed..

Thats a good one. Half a year ago you were arguing with a developer because he asked what computer you use. The last couple of days you've actually helped him find some issues with the sync stuff.
Yeah, nothing changed at all.

Stop going on about the Atari. I bet the biggest sample in your current set wouldn't have fitted on 100 Atari's. It had no drivers to deal with, no multi-threading, pretty much no background processes and you had less RAM than the size of an average .als file.
You say it loads sets, but didn't it just load a bunch of MIDI sequences?
If Live had unfiltered multichannel MIDI, you could do the same with 2 MIDI tracks.

[3phase]

[
if you're struggling since the 80's and you can't even get a proper act together with today's software,



you never will..

a propper act with ableton live doing emails on stage? wow..that sounds really funky..you are wright ..i never will..
and thats good..

[3phase]

1) when i buy controlers like the APC or lunchpad and the first thing they say to me is .."Buy max for live"
i really cant see that as an accident... Because Ableton has prooved that they are not stupid or bad designers.
And now here in the therad again. you can have clip automation litlle one.. buy max for life...
sorry... i am really to stubborn to react on that..rather the opposite.. and this is pretty logical for me.

The Launchpad works without M4L. It even works with Numerology.

Session recording isn't in M4L. Its just a patch that takes CC's from Clips and turns it into remote data. It completely hijacks a parameter.
It was added at the very last stages of M4L development and before that we were told that such a thing would require a rewrite..

2) my bug reports have the same style and dense of information since years.. there has nothing changed..

Thats a good one. Half a year ago you were arguing with a developer because he asked what computer you use. The last couple of days you've actually helped him find some issues with the sync stuff.
Yeah, nothing changed at all.

Stop going on about the Atari. I bet the biggest sample in your current set wouldn't have fitted on 100 Atari's. It had no drivers to deal with, no multi-threading, pretty much no background processes and you had less RAM than the size of an average .als file.
You say it loads sets, but didn't it just load a bunch of MIDI sequences?
If Live had unfiltered multichannel MIDI, you could do the same with 2 MIDI tracks.

i am reporting bugs since years.. and havent you realized the trend towards midi sets?

i actually would like to use notator on stage. such a fun with mutes transposes and track delays..
its with the mouse better than ableton with assigned controlers..

you really would need a max patch to achive that...

[Poster]

if you're struggling since the 80's and you can't even get a proper act together with today's software,



you never will..

a propper act with ableton live doing emails on stage?

you. have. no. idea.

you are wright ..i never will..

I know..

[Tone Deft]

c'mon Poster, play nice.

3phase puts up with a lot of crap and keeps his cool, gotta respect that. he does rant but that's good for US, right?

[Poster]

c'mon Poster, play nice.

I try.. I have no intentions to not to..
but it's hard to not lose your cool when you come over here and keep reading those bs rhetorics over and over again..

3phase puts up with a lot of crap and keeps his cool, gotta respect that.

you know what I really respect?
all those people out there that face the same issues we all have to deal with,
but are innovative and flexible enough to find solutions to get their act together, no matter what,
who understand constructive input pays back ,
and most importantly; who see, create and grab opportunities..

I understand we ain't all like that, but if after a grace period of justifiable complaining all that is left is just structural whining, well, then...

he does rant but that's good for US, right?

I did not recognize that as an opportunity..