Theres much better fodder out there

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Tue May 24, 2005 7:42 pm

supster wrote:i have an idea:

Each of the people that write hateful sarcastic comments about poplular DJs and producers, should post an example of what they consider thier best work here on the forum

make sure and make it prominent so we can all hear it and you can take credit for it. then we can give our objective opinion of it.

fair? :)
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I'm sorry, how are you supposed to compare someone's original work to a DJ mix????

-lm
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Tue May 24, 2005 7:45 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:Hmmm, how about you give a valid reason fo why tiesto sucks more than sasha?


my reasons for why sasha sucks? I'll give you one:

I like performances that have a sense of excitement, a possibility for failure. I'm sorry, but using ableton live to mix together pre mastered and mixed stero tracks and adding some effects is not that.


-lm

I'm still waiting for some sort of response, envy.


-lm
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

supster
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Post by supster » Tue May 24, 2005 7:48 pm

leisuremuffin wrote: I'm sorry, how are you supposed to compare someone's original work to a DJ mix????

-lm
so you - one of the prime 'sasha hating' regulars on the board - are not aware that sasha produces and remixes tracks?

why is this not suprising? :)
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josh 'vonster' von; tracks and sets
http://www.joshvon.com

A DJ
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Post by A DJ » Tue May 24, 2005 7:52 pm

robin wrote:i'd rather see threads on here that point out a good dj they'd seen recently (preferably who uses Live, given the forum your posting to).

all this hating just shows up your own insecurities.

exactly

Envy
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Post by Envy » Tue May 24, 2005 7:56 pm

I'll leave the sasha bashas to revel in their own mysery now except to say lif ereally is to short for some of you to become consumed with hate. if you dont think what many of you say now is hate then please store your comments and read them in five years.

I have no beef to grind with anyone. I just had to do this to see how quickly a flickering flame could become a towering inferno.

chow.

Macrostructure
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Post by Macrostructure » Tue May 24, 2005 8:04 pm

I think it becomes an issue of it not being possible to justify earning so much money from the relatively simple and utterly ephemeral task of mix DJing. In this context all such performances are always 'shit' - i.e. it is simply not possible to program a sequence of music and mix among the various sources of sound in a manner that deserves remunerating to the degree that these people are.
"Tiesto is shit" is a clumsy way of saying "The work Tiesto does doesn't warrant the pay he receives" - it never could. He is going to take a critical hiding whatever he does. There are better musicians and DJs out there sure. But they wouldn't deserve that much money either, and would be shit in that context.
The same could be said of footballers to some degree. It's just kicking a ball around with some aplomb, after all.
There are exceptions. James Lavelle for instance, I have it on good authority, is frankly just shit.

ms

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Tue May 24, 2005 8:07 pm

supster wrote:
leisuremuffin wrote: I'm sorry, how are you supposed to compare someone's original work to a DJ mix????

-lm
so you - one of the prime 'sasha hating' regulars on the board - are not aware that sasha produces and remixes tracks?

why is this not suprising? :)
.
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i am aware that he produces tracks. I did indeed have to sit thru "airdrawn dagger"

i wasn't aware that you did.


-lm
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

computo
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Post by computo » Tue May 24, 2005 8:09 pm

ARRRRRRGH!!

I fucking HATE envy SOOOOO much.

I hate Sasha and tiesto, but now, the person I really HATE is Envy.

EEEWWWWW!!! Damn you, I consumed myself!

A DJ
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Post by A DJ » Tue May 24, 2005 8:16 pm

computo wrote:ARRRRRRGH!!

I fucking HATE envy SOOOOO much.

I hate Sasha and tiesto, but now, the person I really HATE is Envy.

EEEWWWWW!!! Damn you, I consumed myself!
i dont envy you

supster
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Post by supster » Tue May 24, 2005 8:17 pm

leisuremuffin wrote: i wasn't aware that you did.
yes, i do. two of them are available on the set at the link on my sig. others i'm preparing to give away as promos in the very near future, or are in the process of being shopped.

but if you think what he does is shit, you'll probably think what i do is too :)
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kabuki
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Post by kabuki » Tue May 24, 2005 8:34 pm

A DJ wrote:
computo wrote:ARRRRRRGH!!

I fucking HATE envy SOOOOO much.

I hate Sasha and tiesto, but now, the person I really HATE is Envy.

EEEWWWWW!!! Damn you, I consumed myself!
i dont envy you
Computo, I get what you are saying. Pretty funny.

Its sarcasm, Mr. A DJ. I doubt ANYONE who doesn't like Shasha (or the clones) cares enough about Shasha to be consumed by anything but boredom.

And I didn't forget Oakenflod. I thought he was also Digweed, or was it Shasha?!? :roll:


And, BTW, this ain't no "towering inferno" by any stretch. Computo and myself have flamed each other a whole lot worse than this, and neither of us got burned. :wink:
15" PB 2.5 Ghz, 4 Gig RAM, 750 GB HD, Live 9 still no cue points or program change messages?!?. Doesn't do shit.

mikemc
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Post by mikemc » Tue May 24, 2005 8:42 pm

here is a question, which is related to the topic but contains no opinionated rhetoric:

A musician/artist/band in the typical mainstream recording artist vein gets well known because they are heavily promoted in their genre by a major label (and of course opinions abound aboutsome of the most popular of these)...

but where do electronic/techno folk like Sasha and Tiesto get their backing/derive their popularity? Is it the same sort of promotional system?

in the US, I think it's fair to say that the hi-tech digital electronic music thing is perceived as a european phenonmenon (even though legions of pop, esp. hip hop, records, use the techniques-- BT produced britney spears, for example).

the whole "good music" vs. "popular music" thing has gone on forever, and will continue to (legions of starving jazz players being more accomplished than any number of mundane but rich rock musicians, etc etc) but it's not far from choosing the right baseball cap :) somehow, a particular entity manages to be engaged by the promotional machinery.
UTENZIL a tool... of the muse.

leisuremuffin
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Post by leisuremuffin » Tue May 24, 2005 8:48 pm

here ya go supster:

http://homepage.mac.com/leisuremuffin/

thats my stupid .mac file transfer page.

sporetone 199x is from a live performance from somewhere between 1995 and 1997. not exactly sure, i played a lot of sets with versions of that song. Recently found it and i think it sounds good for that time...

tonic12105extract1 is a small section from a recent improvised performance with my good friend Charles Cohen. i played ableton, he played a buchla music easle.


keep in mind these are live performances. there are mistakes. they are not mixed as well as they could be. but this is what i do. I do not usually make studio recordings. i am a performer.


lemme know what you think. tell me it's shit if you want. i'm sure it's not nearly as ground breaking as sasha. especially the stuff from 95 or 97.


-lm

BTW, do you have a link to just your original track? my connection is not so fast.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

anti-banausic
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Post by anti-banausic » Tue May 24, 2005 9:18 pm

Goodness you guys.

The beauty of music is that it takes all kinds. It wouldn't be nearly as much fun if the raga never was, but I have never really listened to it. Maybe I would enjoy it.

There is no such thing as objective reality, but here is my two cents....

The reason that some DJs become overly hyped (and I do agree that it is astounding what they are payed to do since in some ways it is not creating music) is that the mainstream folk, historically, have found it difficult to wade through the mass of electronic music out there. Also because many artists will have one or two great tracks while the rest are marginal on any given release. People who do not devote their lives to this type of music, but enjoy it, will love to have a CD that is selected by someone else (the DJ) that will hopefully have "the best" tracks on it. So then, this initial desire drives the industry to put out more and more of these mix CDs, and the demand becomes greater; cycle continues and you have the new rockstars that many question.....

However, one argument that hasn't been posited yet, and I am unsure of whether the comparability is truly there, is that of the conductor and the symphony. Is the conductor writing his music? Does he have influence on how it is performed? Yes. Some conductors are paid a fairly substantial sum. Given, they are generally very talented musicians in their own right, which is definitely suspect of some DJs having listened to (and not purchased) their studio albums.

The reality is, I would believe that almost everyone on this forum is being creative in what they do....whether it be creation of a totally new track in any vein of music (experimental jazz, prog house, techno, trance, industrial, glitch, dnb, dub, etc...), or just splicing other tracks together, using samples, or purely just DJing with interesting variation.

I mean, let's slag people like kelly clarkson who doesn't even write her own music, sings marginally, and is out there making a living off of her dubious popularity.

Also keep in mind, that sometimes, just sometimes, people are rewarded for their perseverance. People who have stayed in the game for long enough sometimes win out over talent, ability, anything.

So, stop slagging each other, we are all trying to make at least our lives a little better through the admiral pursuit of creation. I used to care that people would get on me about my musical preference, and it actually inhibited me greatly. I don't really understand why everyone has to feel that their own opinions rule the world.

That is particularly what is wrong with the United States right now. One person who has a small amount of power somewhere feels that the way cheerleaders dance is too suggestive (I am talking about Texas), that this leads to moral decline, and that they will pass a bill to regulate this suggestive behavior. WTF? And thus the downfall of tolerance, democracy, and basically any level of humanity.

Further, what would the world sound like, or be like, if everyone was just like you, listened and made only the type of music you like, wore only what you like to wear, or find acceptable. It is a slippery path.............

Cheers,
AB
Macbook c2d 2.0, 2G RAM, 160G HD 5400 RPM, OSX(10.5.5), XP Home, LIVE6, BCR 2000, UC33e, Yamaha P-200, Logic Studio, KRK V6 II

computo
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Post by computo » Tue May 24, 2005 9:36 pm

Kelly Clarkson?

Shit, sasha doesnt even SING!!! He spins other peoples music, and talk about dubious popularity! What televised, democratic-based contest did Sasha win? He doesnt even have the support of Ryan Seacrest!!

Anyone trying to be in the music biz, who hasnt been a guest on Ryan Seacrest Live, is just a poser!

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