Theres much better fodder out there

[supster]

here ya go supster:

http://homepage.mac.com/leisuremuffin/

ok - not trying to pirate this thread too far - but i'll try and work it around to illustrate whatever points i have.

i couldnt get the full liveset, but i did listen to the two smaller pieces. i enjoyed them both. in particularly the ambient one had a really nice feel to it, good stuff. the fact that you are doing it live i have a lot of respect for.

but (and of course in any internet post about opinions there is almost always a BUT. haha) based hearing on this im not suprised that you are not a huge fan of DJs or possibly electronic dance as a whole.

i *am* a little bit suprised that you listened (i mean, really listened) to airdrawndagger and found nothing in it that was worthy, or that was at least not so painful to listen to.

especaily the first track, and a few of the early tracks (cloud cukoo comes to mind) .. or Requiem (a more downtempo one toward the end) .... or even wavy gravy.

as an electronic musician, i would think that someone even halfway obective would listen to that and hear at least something of value. its not your typical cookie cutter progressive or trance or breakbeats etc etc:

its at least original, the sound design and sound quality is stellar, and obviously has a lot of creativity and effort behind it.

the difference between what you do and what he does - musically, not performance wise - is that he is doing stuff that is more traditionally based in rhythms, harmony, and melody that people can relate to. ie "more mainstream"

and (arguably) more listenable. honestly i do enjoy what you posted, but its something that i'll listen to once or a couple of times, i find it interesting and moody, but doesnt hold up for repeated listens. its not something i would play in my car to rock my world, its not something that i would play at a party or build into a DJ set.
but thats not it's purpose, i know that.

i find that in many cases the more expermental stuff strips away a lot of what i enjoy most about music - in some cases just for the sake of being different, i think.

what i dont understand is the venom that some of the more experimental artists have toward the people that do stuff that
is accessable. its like a sarcastic hatred toward people that stick more closely to the rules of harmony/structure/consonance/groove.

why?

oh: no, i dont have indiviual copies of those tracks available yet. they're mixed into the set primarily so people cant easily 'steal' them and use them without permission or credit. which happens more often than people realize.

the Devo remake i'm preparing to make available as a download - I'll post it here soon, 'Slowrider' is being shopped to labels so i cant give it away as of yet.

[Macrostructure]

Goodness you guys.

The beauty of music is that it takes all kinds. It wouldn't be nearly as much fun if the raga never was, but I have never really listened to it. Maybe I would enjoy it.

[snip]

Further, what would the world sound like, or be like, if everyone was just like you, listened and made only the type of music you like, wore only what you like to wear, or find acceptable. It is a slippery path.............

Cheers,
AB

Nice points well made.

[Martyn]

I kind of agree with the title of this thread. I listened to the Radio1 Sasha set earlier to see what the fuss was about and found it all pretty harmless really, harmless apart from one small detail, Pete Tong! every break saying "Sasha, live on Ableton Live"

That makes me feel like it's time to find something new, for me at least. I bet Ableton will be laughing all the way to the bank soon, as thousands of bedroom djs prise open daddy's wallet for the credit card. More and more people hanging out on this forum asking questions like 'how do I warp a whole mp3?' or 'how do I record'.

I bought into this software because the term 'sequencing instrument' lit a lightbulb in my head. Now its going to be more lucritive for ableton to be pandering to the DJ market, and as a result i fear we can expect less innovation and more instantly gratifying features for mr superstar dj's pleasure.

Sickening, not Sasha, who can blame him, but just the way that the terminally DUMB always seems to be what people want to buy these days.

Fuck! I feel old.

[anti-banausic]

Thanks Macrostructure.

Revel in difference as opposed to shunning it. It is just that and time that keep all of life from being a smudge.

[NewAndImprov]

it does however mean that i'll speak up when i'm tired of hearing people cumming all over sasha. You don't see me posting threads about how great Hans Reichel is, and how innovative his daxophone pieces are. You don't see me positing threads about how DJ Olive is the greatest user of ableton live and how he ground breaking his material is.

DJ Olive uses Ableton? Man, "Bodega" is a fantastic CD, and he's one of the few DJ's that I'd actually make an effort to go see.

Also, I opened for Hans Reichel once, he was doing a duet with Fred Frith. One of the most intimidating gigs I ever played. The rest of the band had never heard of them, and they were wondering why I was flipping out.

[leisuremuffin]

it does however mean that i'll speak up when i'm tired of hearing people cumming all over sasha. You don't see me posting threads about how great Hans Reichel is, and how innovative his daxophone pieces are. You don't see me positing threads about how DJ Olive is the greatest user of ableton live and how he ground breaking his material is.

DJ Olive uses Ableton? Man, "Bodega" is a fantastic CD, and he's one of the few DJ's that I'd actually make an effort to go see.

Also, I opened for Hans Reichel once, he was doing a duet with Fred Frith. One of the most intimidating gigs I ever played. The rest of the band had never heard of them, and they were wondering why I was flipping out.

Olive was the guy who first showed me live back at version 2! Before i saw him use it i was a hardware snob.

Anyway, yeah, bodega is ALL ableton live. and just so no one gets confused, Olive is also a DJ, but the bodega record is not a mix, it's original music.


Nice gig opening for Han Reichel and Fred Frith!


-lm

[leisuremuffin]

supster-


I was into electronic dance music as a teenager, after years of going to parties, i kinda got tired of it. I still like to go out and dance, I'd just rather not dance to mainstream stuff. Actually, I saw James Pennington of Underground Resistance do a DJ set a couple fridays ago and that was really great. There were some sound system problems that night, but his set was so tight it didn't matter too much. Anyway, back to the point, I've actually played in the chillout rooms at a bunch of raves over the years. That track, "sporetone" was always a pretty big hit in those rooms. Of course parties are way more closed minded these days, i can't remember the last time i saw a flyer for a party that had an altrenate room with something other than straight dance music.

did you actually listen to "sporetone" in it's entirety? I think that it's pretty accessable once you get past the long intro.

could someone else listen to it and explain to me what's so "experimental" about it?? (and again, please remember i wrote that thing 10 years ago)

What i do is not that experimental. In fact, it's not experimental at all, do you think i stick my fucking fingers in my ears and randomly change parameters??

How is what i'm doing breaking the rules of "harmony/structure/consonance/groove" ?

I don't think i'll download your DJ mix, but when you have one of your originals available for me to listen to on its own, i'll be happy to listen to it.


BTW, i don't find sasha's music painfull, just boring and pedestrian.


lm

[rikhyray]

I got stuck last night so, even read this useless theard. My special thanks to Mosca, I downloaded the gif, most delicious post I ever seen on Ableton. it has absolutely hypnotic effect on me.
Why you people fight so much over "nothing". I did some research when there was the last Sasha controversy. There was an interview where he clearly admits that his success was being skillful shopper, getting disc nobody else got, it was even better , and bigger success in USA. However he also said it is over, due to easier access, internet. I fully understand that he tries some other ways to make his living. It is obvious he is not a musician, not even producer. That recent music I heard, well, I could teach anyone to be able to "produce" such stereotypes in few days if not hours. Never seen him DJing - so cannot say maybe he is/ was good, I hope for him and his fans. So he is not musician, no producer, no artist and unfortunately not very smart. Having such fan following, and some almost brand name he could hire somebody to do the music for him and then play it back with laptop or whatever.
Anyway he seems OK to me, at least in the interview, dear fans I dont hate him, neither envy ( for what?)
If you need somebody to bash and hate let me give you the real thing, you DJs should hate the 2. One is Swiss other Austrian, they cannot sing, rap, dance are ugly, arrogant stupid, irrtating, disgusting and they earn more in a week the Sasha in his whole life ( maybe I exeggerate.) The connection to music of DJ Ötzi is that he is bastard of some village enterteiner in provincial Austria, of DJ Bobo ( how a hell somebody chooses a name that means "imbecil" in Spanish?) nobody knows. While the Ötzi is unpretentional and sold just few million selling singles, the Bobo is megastar and shameless bastard not by birth but by what he does ( ripping of people who work for him) One example is 500000 Euro case filed by a singer who actually sung one of the megahits. He "explained" in interview that the lady is a mother and never wanted to be in centre of attention !!! Do any of you know any female singer who does not want to be famous? She wanted indeed. ( BTW. the lady is a mother but sexy, attractive and great singer indeed)
So google for DJ Bobo and DJ Ötzi if you see, hear them even the biggest Sasha haters will admit that Sasha is wonderful in comparison.

[anti-banausic]

I don't really know what you two are on about. You know, it is fairly close-minded to not listen......

You can learn a little something from anywhere. Any type of music.

I mean, my stuff is in its infancy, and I don't know whether it will ever get out of there, but I certainly don't turn off or don't listen to stuff just because it isn't in my favorite genre.

One of the most fun things to do in music is meld various things into one.

[mikemc]

You can learn a little something from anywhere. Any type of music.

I mean, my stuff is in its infancy, and I don't know whether it will ever get out of there, but I certainly don't turn off or don't listen to stuff just because it isn't in my favorite genre.

One of the most fun things to do in music is meld various things into one.

this is the thing, well said

(even tho' the stuff about which two to hate is kind of funny the whole hater things is kind of predictable, dontcha think?)

[anti-banausic]

There is so much hating on this board. Kinda weird.

I think Robert Henke summed it up best in the thread on Richie Hawtin.

Let's make music and leave all the hating to people who can't.

Those who can, do; while those who can't, hate.

[supster]

did you actually listen to "sporetone" in it's entirety? I think that it's pretty accessable once you get past the long intro.

could someone else listen to it and explain to me what's so "experimental" about it?? (and again, please remember i wrote that thing 10 years ago)

What i do is not that experimental. In fact, it's not experimental at all, do you think i stick my fucking fingers in my ears and randomly change parameters??

How is what i'm doing breaking the rules of "harmony/structure/consonance/groove" ?

well ... didnt say you were breaking them, i said that some people "stick more closely to them" than others.

for instance: from a very broad view, this track 'sporetone' and 'wavy gravy'' on airdrawndagger are not all that far apart. honestly. fuck the genre splitting, its downtempo electronic with an improvisational feel.

theres some broken beats going on, and some synth pads. and some interesting hi end work going on in both tracks. they're about the same tempo too.

the difference between wavy gravy and sporetone - in my opinion - is that wavy gravy is more structured than improv, theres a more patterned emotional build to the arrangement .. harmonies are more consonant

drum sounds .. espeically at the beginning .. are more harsh and clattery, and it has a much more loose feel. these are the things that make it more ... i dont know, you dont like the word expermental so lets just say, if i played it back to back with wavy gravy to a casual electronic listener, not a huge fan .. which one do i think they are going to feel?

wavy gravy. sporetone. this one is much darker, moody, avante garde, and less easy to warm up to. why? because its not as easy to relate to. wavy gravy is easier to relate to because they stuck closer to certain ways of building things and sound design that *are* easy to relate to

and you know that. so: is that bad? you tell me. wavy gravy is easy enough to find, listen to it and let me know what exactly about it you find crap espeicaly in context of what i just said.

[Hypomixolydian]

There is so much hating on this board. Kinda weird.

I think Robert Henke summed it up best in the thread on Richie Hawtin.

Let's make music and leave all the hating to people who can't.

Those who can, do; while those who can't, hate.

Something I wrote (for what it is worth) on that thread where Robert Henke responded to the Anti Sasha and Hawtin remarks .

Since being a member of this forum, I have read far worse and unnecessary remarks aimed at other members which are far more insulting and worrying. But unfortunately, that is the nature of a forum. A forum by definition is a public meeting place for OPEN discussion. Open being the operative word. So I guess if you don't like what people say on this forum then maybe a moderator is needed. But then that would undermine the true nature of what a forum really is. Because if in his/her subjective opinion a moderator isn't happy about something written, then they can adopt Stalinist Big Brother tactics and delete or alter the post . That is also not nice and an affront to freedom of speech.
So I say no Moderator and allow freedom of speech with all the positive and negative aspects. That after all is the true nature of a forum.
For the record, I know nothing about Sasha (except as I said in a previous post, the only thing I know about him is that he "allegedly" ripped someone off) or R.Hawtin or heard any of their stuff, so I am in no position to judge their music, let alone their characters.

[leisuremuffin]

well supster, i guess the question is who is listening.

easier for who to relate to?


i like dark and moody music.


-lm

[FaX-01]

you're all just jealous :-)

You might not like Tiesto , but his recent records are at least better than what he made a decade ago , and being so called #1 while most others from 10 years ago have disapeared long since is an achievment on it's own.

Seriously ...what the fuck is there to be jealous of ?
Or am I missing something ?
Nope I thought about it and there's definately nothing to be jealous of.