All the little detail problems with Ableton Live Collection

[crumhorn]

161

rearranging drumracks is like a slide tile puzzle that takes ages..

first you cant use the system copy paste commands.. alt/drag is the only way to copy a trigger slot..

than you cant move that triggerslot outside of the display area..so you only can drag copy within a 4x4 frame..

third you cant navigate the display area in single rows..you always jump to the next block...( minus one row)

this all 3 together lead into a situation that involves many clicking and scrolling like in a slide tile puzzle to achive most simple goals..

very much ableton style somehow.. it´s really a consistant design thing in the program that you have to puzzle around and do thousends extra clicks..
A program that likes to keep you engaged with itself instead working on your goals. A designer drug? Or just quick and dirty implementations under a shiny gui?

+1

This gives me a chance to pimp my --> feature request

[Poster]

first you cant use the system copy paste commands.. alt/drag is the only way to copy a trigger slot..

so? that's not more action than copy/paste..

than you cant move that triggerslot outside of the display area..so you only can drag copy within a 4x4 frame..

yes you can.. drag the slot to the scroller to navigate to another slot..

third you cant navigate the display area in single rows..you always jump to the next block...( minus one row)

so? can't see why this is an issue? it's actualy quite convenient that it jumps in larger blocks..

[UKRuss]

You must not interfere with the crusade, poster!

[3phase]

first you cant use the system copy paste commands.. alt/drag is the only way to copy a trigger slot..

so? that's not more action than copy/paste..

With system copy paste you can freely navigate whereever you want.. with drag you only can copy to reachable destinations which are in this case limited to 16 notes that are usually allredy occupied.. so pretty useless

yes you can.. drag the slot to the scroller to navigate to another slot..

untrue.. at least that dont works on a mac.. the no entry symbol appears when going to the scroller

third you cant navigate the display area in single rows..you always jump to the next block...( minus one row)

so? can't see why this is an issue? it's actualy quite convenient that it jumps in larger blocks..

you are a factory aprooved fanboy..you wouldnt see a thing that bytes in your nose..

larger blocks would be allwright with standard copy paste..but not with drag because the objekt you want to drag is usualy out of reach than.

in ideal this would work with standrd copy paste and ther wouldnt be a problem.. and in case of draging there should be auto scrolling as we fin it in other windows..and ther is really no arguments against keeping standard conventions of operation consistent inside the program and dont changing the rules plug in dependent..that is bad design or half implemented.. but never allwright

[Poster]

yes you can.. drag the slot to the scroller to navigate to another slot..

untrue.. at least that dont works on a mac.. the no entry symbol appears when going to the scroller

this again proves that all you're trying to do here is to just piss on Ableton whenever you can..

let me explain why it doesn't work for you..
you were just fiddling with drumracks to see how you could figure out another so called flaw..
so you picked up an empty slot and tried to move it and were unable to drop it onto another slot via the scroller..
what should've done is pick up a used slot and drop it elsewhere.. just try it..
you see? you did not run into this in a real work situation (because why move an empty slot?), you're obsesively searching for flaws..

seriously buddy.. your act is getting old.. no one is taking you serious, your opinion means nothing because you're slipping with these way too obvious shots at Ableton..
you're not interested in a better Live, we all know that, but please try harder and don't make a fool of yourself with these fantasy arguments..

peace..

out..

[Poster]

You must not interfere with the crusade, poster!

hehe.. I'm on a crusade as well.. calling BS whenever I run into it..
3haze happens to be a main supplier..

[Mister36]

It's funny, I usually think the same thing as Poster and his plural namesakes but I agree with 3phase about the rearranging of drumracks. It is a much more arduous task than seems to be necessary. And even his slide tile puzzle analogy isn't far off. In my opinion and experience, of course.

[twisted-space]

yes you can.. drag the slot to the scroller to navigate to another slot..

untrue.. at least that dont works on a mac.. the no entry symbol appears when going to the scroller

Does that on windows as well, but if you just drag the scroller (while it's showing the no entry symbol) it'll scroll anyway.

[Poster]

It's funny, I usually think the same thing as Poster and his plural namesakes but I agree with 3phase about the rearranging of drumracks. It is a much more arduous task than seems to be necessary. And even his slide tile puzzle analogy isn't far off. In my opinion and experience, of course.

sure drumracks could use some improvements but what 3haze is doing here is spreading false arguments just for the sake of shooting at Ableton..
read what he wrote there.. 1 point is just plain false, 2 are not the size of showstoppers, though could be improved one day, nothing that serious..

this thread isn't about actually wanting Live to become a better app, this is a personal vendetta..

[Mister36]

this thread isn't about actually wanting Live to become a better app, this is a personal vendetta..

It certainly does seem that way sometimes. Maybe he was on the original Ableton team but was kicked out before anyone really knew he was a part of it... Or maybe he's Robert Henke in disguise and it's all just a big joke.

[Poster]

yes you can.. drag the slot to the scroller to navigate to another slot..

untrue.. at least that dont works on a mac.. the no entry symbol appears when going to the scroller

Does that on windows as well, but if you just drag the scroller (while it's showing the no entry symbol) it'll scroll anyway.

which is perfectly normal, because what it says is you can't drop a slot on the scroller.. maybe a tad confusing..
but as you said, you can scroll along to other blocks, then drop the slot onto another slot..

3haze claims you can't drag a slot outside of the visible range, which isn't true..

[crumhorn]

... 2 are not the size of showstoppers, though could be improved one day, nothing that serious ...

To be fair the thread is not called Ableton Live Show Stoppers and Serious Issues, it's called ... well you can see for yourself what it's called.

3Phase does come across as rather obsessive, but not malicious IMO.

And the cramped conditions in the device chain view is one the most irritating feature of Live's GUI

[ze2be]

..the cramped conditions in the device chain view is one the most irritating feature of Live's GUI

Agree.

[3phase]

yes you can.. drag the slot to the scroller to navigate to another slot..

untrue.. at least that dont works on a mac.. the no entry symbol appears when going to the scroller

this again proves that all you're trying to do here is to just piss on Ableton whenever you can..

let me explain why it doesn't work for you..
you were just fiddling with drumracks to see how you could figure out another so called flaw..
so you picked up an empty slot and tried to move it and were unable to drop it onto another slot via the scroller..
what should've done is pick up a used slot and drop it elsewhere.. just try it..
you see? you did not run into this in a real work situation (because why move an empty slot?), you're obsesively searching for flaws..

seriously buddy.. your act is getting old.. no one is taking you serious, your opinion means nothing because you're slipping with these way too obvious shots at Ableton..
you're not interested in a better Live, we all know that, but please try harder and don't make a fool of yourself with these fantasy arguments..

peace..

out..

when i would search flaws we would be at number 850 here allready.. lets say i list sometimes one i come along .. maybe one out of 3 issues..

however in ths case it works with the scroller..you just have to wait one second before it starts scrolling..on the running sequencer with load it can take up to 2 seconds to get into move.. so easy to miss that and not really nice to have drag action around the corner with waiting times and booth hands engaged. good ol copy paste is really a friend sometimes.

But I wished i would have known the scroller workaround yesterday, because the tile slide puzzle was taking hours...so defently more than 2 seconds per tile... and ultimatly killing the session by letting people wait to long to achive the desired result

However. i keep the number 161 for improvements of the copy process of the drumracks because its even with the scroller the abelton "we have all the time in the world" mode of operation i initially critizised.. i just take back the half developed.. but where you found that the scrollbar is active in the manual? is it really hidden there somewhere? i dont find it in the chapter regarding drumracks nor is there any index that leads to the scrollbar and any related hidden fuctionality.. so where you learned about that way to navigate inside a drumrack?

162

rather bad dokumented or bad indexed manual.. lots of details are missing, not indexed correctly or just hidden in short general senteces..

example?
the ability to export scenes with the aid of the browser is just mentioned in a general sentence in an unrelated chapter and not indexed at all..

while scenes are major structural element of the program one could think that the possebility to export them might be worth a sentece in the manual or at least the word scene export in the index to lead you to the browser chapter where the information is hidden in a cryptic sentence that you can safe any combination of multiple clips..

Main structural components of the program can have an own page in the manual and it dont hurts to mention functions that dont have menu entrys and are therfore hidden twice... its realy not necessary to safe space in a manual to make it look slim.
actually you also can have an extra chapter that just lists theese hideen screen only operations and therefore mention the hidden functions 3 times..that realy does no harm and might reduce the need for rectified rainers.. much cheaper for the user to just have a propper handbook/manual.

[3phase]

which is perfectly normal, because what it says is you can't drop a slot on the scroller.. maybe a tad confusing..
but as you said, you can scroll along to other blocks, then drop the slot onto another slot..

3haze claims you can't drag a slot outside of the visible range, which isn't true..

dragging around the corner via a scrollbar that starts jumping after a one second grace period is not perfectly normal..its rather sick..

but ok..it isnt true that copying outside the visible range isnt possible.. it just dont works smoothly and quick, and is hidden and not well documented.. so qualifies as detail problem

but thanks for clearing that up