Synths reborn

[beats me]

For me the iPad won’t be a completely feasible option until any and all apps will be as easy and as reliable as plugging in any POS m-audio controller into your computer. None of this proprietary per app middle man application to connect or fucking around with adhoc networks you have a set up each and every time you reboot your computer..also disconnecting you from the net. Fuck all that.

[Khazul]

Does the iPad have bluetooth? I guess even if it does, bluetooth stacks can be a nightmare with audio, and apple probably dont include a profile that will let it pair with a PC or mac.

[LoopStationZebra]

For me the iPad won’t be a completely feasible option until any and all apps will be as easy and as reliable as plugging in any POS m-audio controller into your computer. None of this proprietary per app middle man application to connect or fucking around with adhoc networks you have a set up each and every time you reboot your computer..also disconnecting you from the net. Fuck all that.

I understand.

[Forge.]

Yes - its what they were good at - but with crrent reliability I have to question that - Traktor + Maschine is looking like a more viable performance rig to me, especially if you need to integrate with some kind of regular style DJing.

I don't have either (yet?) but one of my students was asking me about whether I thought he should switch to Live for a certain DJ gig and I couldn't recommend that he did - he's already used to Traktor and he's only going to be DJing and adding the odd samples as well and I just couldn't see a single reason for him to switch to Live and totally change up on what he is used to etc etc... But I guess I see it as kind of Ironic that I am teaching him in "Ableton LIVE" yet it's purely for production and Live he uses something else....

On the have-to-be-a-DAW point - People seem to like tools that can do everything, or tools that are very well inttegrated. Tools that can do part of the job, but where the workflow gets horrible compromised when integrating with something else tend to just get annoying and bypassed.

Yeah I still feel split here... I mean in the above point like I said I find it ironic, but at the same time I find it so quick and easy to work in Live after all this time that each time I've messed around with other DAWs I usually end up going back just because it's quicker in Live. I wonder how the latest version of Cubase would go though... I used to use it from VST5 up to around SX2 and I remember liking a lot about it and I have read people really rating it.... I remember preferring the workflow over Logic - that was around the time when Logic went Mac only....

Reason, rewire being a good example of something that was only ever partially done (midi in, audio out only, not in both directions), and workflow that wasnt that great in the end. Same with Live + rewire - it pretty horrible with the plugin limitations it imposes to the point of useless.

Reason is the classic example - Rewire not being full duplex was one of my reasons for leaving it in v2.5 - the weird thing about Reason is it's strengths are also its weaknesses - the fact that it is such a closed system can be infuriating, but then it's probably the single most stable and CPU efficient software program I've ever used for that exact reason. So it's a definite trade off. But they are a case in point in Tarekith's original point - the interface is bewildering that they are still using those tiny little controls.... they really need to make the rack resizable by now, it seems ridiculous that they expect people to take it seriously when it looks like it does. But I've ended up with an NFR of v5 and there are a lot of things that have come a long way that I'm really quite impressed with. The groove system is genius and so are the blocks.... but again there's an irony in the fact that they have really developed the sequencer side of things so that you're now expected to use the arranger more than the pattern sequencers, but the pattern sequencers have always been the main point of it to me - the fact that you can literally load it up, hit play and start tweaking. I remember showing my dad Rebirth about 15 years ago and he sat there tweaking knobs and after about 10 minutes turned around and said "Am I really doing this?".... now I've got my son on to it and he finds that side of it really easy to get into ....

the first thing I did was wire up a couple of Redrums to use the step sequencers on Kong

OTOH, If we had excellent virtual audio and midi between applications, a better master/slave sync story, near perfect interchange fo file formats between DAWs (ie move the complete project from live to logic or cubase), then we might well be using Live as a skteching and perfromance tool, logic and cubase as our DAWs (as examples), Reason in there as well as a collection of synths and processors. But they dont play nicely with each other, so we dont - too much of a pain, except when migration is done at certain points.

The real problem is that the companies wont play nicely with each other - never mind their products. How often to WE end up being piggy in the middle between the support depts of companies based in germany? (Access, NI, Ableton, Setinberg, RME) when if they would play nice and talk to eahc other - it wouldnt be so much of a pain in the ass for us? How the how can we ever expectt them to et together and make stuff really work well for user by actually designing together, creating standards etc?

Steinberg and Prellerheads have done alot fr us, but nowhere near enough. Needs another very strong player to push things to the next stage before it all continue to fragment even more. Kore is a good idea. On a certain hardware beta programme myself and Tarekith were in we had conversations about such a scheme a long time ago, but aimed at the product we were testing. Kore is good for NI and Alchemy, but for it to be really god - other need to get on board as well as support it. But the reality - most just want to do their own thing and never commit to helping someone else.

Like herding kittens really. In other industries there are standards bodies - music software is getting to the level of maturity and size were there is now a place where it needs an ECMA/W3C equivalent - for the actual software, not just the hardware. This is the reason we are still using 31.25Kbit midi and not something much better over 1GB ethernet for example!

Have to say out of all of them NI is the one I've been most impressed by. Somewhere around 5 or so years ago they were in trouble - really buggy, really but customer support, but they rose from the ashes and have turned out some amazing stuff....

[jonah]

I really like Aalto. It's one of the only synths I like using on a screen. For everything else there is BCR2000 and korg nanokontrol. Seriously, this combo with fm8 = ?.

[sanfoin]

I think my biggest issue with Live's synths, is that so many of the controls are located in that center black area. Makes them very small and hard to see, and even more difficult to manipulate.

Totally agree. Lots of options, but lots of hassle too when it comes to tweaking.


You would think that, at the very least, one could expand the plugin view window (technically called the detail view, i think) in the same way that the clip view window can be expanded.


Of course, Live has the option of zooming the display (under look/feel in preferences), but that's not a great improvement -- first, because it adjusts everything together equally; second, because the screen resolution is lousy (at least on my computer).

[nathannn]

Regarding touchscreen:

Well, you chaps know me: iPad all the way. I dumped all my other controllers; mostly because for live looping the less shit I have to bring with me the better. I find nothing frustrating at all about controlling every aspect of live via touchAble, Konkreet Performer, and various other apps. It's as precise as I need it to be.

The other aspect that needs to be considered is the AWESOME power that comes with controlling a buttload of parameters at the same time via multitouch. Until you've used something like Performer, you truly have no idea what it's like - the fluid craziness of sound that you absolutely cannot get with 2 hands and knobs.

It's apps like Performer and the Omnisphere companion that are really going to push the touchscreen doubters into rethinking the place that touchscreen has. Not as a replacement for the beloved knobs and faders, but as a whole new level of control that you've never had before.

You made me want an ipad with this post. Looked up video's of Konkreet performer and it looks sooooo cool!!!
Now i feel like im really missing out and I need this.... I need it!!!!!
Alot of the other video's i seen for the ipad also make me want it more. The interface's on some of them look excellent. Why are developers not doing the same interfaces for traditional computers?!!!

[nathannn]

For me the iPad won’t be a completely feasible option until any and all apps will be as easy and as reliable as plugging in any POS m-audio controller into your computer. None of this proprietary per app middle man application to connect or fucking around with adhoc networks you have a set up each and every time you reboot your computer..also disconnecting you from the net. Fuck all that.

and this post makes me want to wait on the ipad.
I didnt really think of the shit you have to go through to use the ipad as a controller.

[LoopStationZebra]

For me the iPad won’t be a completely feasible option until any and all apps will be as easy and as reliable as plugging in any POS m-audio controller into your computer. None of this proprietary per app middle man application to connect or fucking around with adhoc networks you have a set up each and every time you reboot your computer..also disconnecting you from the net. Fuck all that.

and this post makes me want to wait on the ipad.
I didnt really think of the shit you have to go through to use the ipad as a controller.

Don't listen to beats. He's having a bad week.

With respect to a MIDI connection via wifi, he does have a point and it's something that I've bitched about in various threads. There IS a wifi setup process and it's something you have to do each time you fire up the iPad. However, depending in large part on the app itself, the user experience is very different. For instance:

Any app that uses the standard Apple MIDI wifi connection is pretty painless. You enable MIDI wifi on your Mac, open the app, go back to the MIDI wifi Mac screen and hit CONNECT. Done. You're rockin and rollin. Some apps will remember your wifi settings, but some will not. Pianist Pro (an excellent piano/organ modelling app) pretty much remembers your settings. Sometimes you have to go in and reset stuff within the app. All of this doesn't take much time, but.....

touchAble is another wifi based app in which you have to first open a program on your Mac, then open up the iPad app and enter the IP address in the proper field. Then it connects and you're on your way. Not a big deal, but...

Konkreet Performer relies on OSC, so you need to run something like OSCulator on your desktop. You fire it up, then open up the app, and you're on your way. As long as your don't change ports, you're always good to go.

And so on and so on.

But there's one method in which you can avoid ALL this bullshit and that's a hard MIDI connection via the Camera Connection Kit and a USB to MIDI cable. It's just like using a hardware synth, pretty painless. Plug in the MIDI cable, plug in the audio cable, start Live, then ROCK AND ROLL. That's where the Alesis iPad Studio Dock is going to be a GODSEND. All your cables are connected into the dock. You just slip in your iPad.

I know the Performer guys are working on a USB MIDI connection, and I believe the touchAble folks are as well. wifi is cool, but I fucking HATE using it - especially at gigs where shit is bound to go wrong. USB support is absolutely critical and I hope these two developers in particular get on it quick.

So there you have it.

[bigbadotis]

I know the Performer guys are working on a USB MIDI connection, and I believe the touchAble folks are as well. wifi is cool, but I fucking HATE using it - especially at gigs where shit is bound to go wrong. USB support is absolutely critical and I hope these two developers in particular get on it quick.

I've almost finished integrating it into Control... I really should have done it when I first stuck MIDI in there. It's no different -at all- to implement than wireless MIDI (assuming you're using the CCK and not the line 6 thingy). I just didn't have a camera connection kit at the time to check it out ... oh well, it will be in there soon.

[sporkles]

You made me want an ipad with this post.

and this post makes me want to wait on the ipad.

Would you like to buy my Kaossilator for £300? It's really awesome! Touchpad, lots of great sounds, plug and
play. I've also got a really cool mango cutter that's a must have these days. £150.

[LoopStationZebra]

I know the Performer guys are working on a USB MIDI connection, and I believe the touchAble folks are as well. wifi is cool, but I fucking HATE using it - especially at gigs where shit is bound to go wrong. USB support is absolutely critical and I hope these two developers in particular get on it quick.

I've almost finished integrating it into Control... I really should have done it when I first stuck MIDI in there. It's no different -at all- to implement than wireless MIDI (assuming you're using the CCK and not the line 6 thingy). I just didn't have a camera connection kit at the time to check it out ... oh well, it will be in there soon.

Yeah, cool. wifi connection is excellent for sitting around the studio/home/coffee house/etc where you just want to get some jamming and ideas going. There is something cool about using wifi in a gig and being able to walk around, but for me that quickly turned into a gimmick/novelty. Though it is nice to get a different perspective on the sound, lol.

[massenmedium]

some good points, I agree with a lot of it. In fact some of your suggestions near the end sound very similar to an idea I had for a while for a "synaesthetic" music making program. It's heading into multimedia art territory there though.

I agree about the black space with Ableton synths - mainly on Analog I have a problem with it

I've been growing increasingly frustrated with Live's all in one interface lately - it can make it very awkward for some editing tasks - like having to stretch the clip view up and down to see the arranger..... I guess it's more of a PITA because I'm on a 13" macbook and can't be arsed using an external monitor, but sometimes trying to work in the arranger when the returns are visible and automation is showing can be a nightmare....

Could really do with CTRL/CMD-ALT-L being more immediately accessible than that three finger salute.

Re knobs / dials - I'd say they are really good for seeing at a glance where something is.