Ableton Live 8 with M4L for free.

[stringtapper]

Again, I think there's a whole boatload of users like me who have a real interest in about 2% of what M4L can do, but can think of about 2 dozen other music related items we'd actually know how to use that cost that amount of money.

Agreed.

[LoopStationZebra]

Again, I think there's a whole boatload of users like me who have a real interest in about 2% of what M4L can do, but can think of about 2 dozen other music related items we'd actually know how to use that cost that amount of money.

Agreed.

Slam?

Can't ignore the reality that the price keeps a shitload of potential buyers away...

Until now, of course. Glad to see they're fucking GIVING it away for free with Live8, though.

Also can't ignore that a FIFTY PERCENT DISCOUNT rings a lot more true for people on the fence than 30%.

Fuck it. I only want a runtime anyway.

[stringtapper]

Again, I think there's a whole boatload of users like me who have a real interest in about 2% of what M4L can do, but can think of about 2 dozen other music related items we'd actually know how to use that cost that amount of money.

Agreed.

Slam?…

All in good fun broham.

I only want a runtime anyway.

Well there you go.

I will say this: Henke's Granulator is the first device I've seen that I could see people paying real money for. It could easily have been a standard Live instrument that they charge $200 for.

The devices I create for myself are worth the price of M4L (even though I didn't pay full price). They're not big groundbreaking things that I could sell or that I even think anyone else would be interested in for free, but they let me do things my way, and that's what M4L really is about, IMO.

Oh, and…

[LoopStationZebra]

ST, I had not watched that granulator vid yet but I just did and....I gotta tell ya....my resolve is slipping away because that (as well as hoff's recent 16macros patch) is fucking kick ass.

[AceLuby]

I would probably buy it if it were $150. $300 is ridiculous, and even the $210 they are offering to the newsletter subscribers is too much to get any serious movement on it.

[stringtapper]

$300 is ridiculous, and even the $210 they are offering to the newsletter subscribers is too much to get any serious movement on it.

Only if you have no idea what you're getting with M4L. M4L is Max 5 with a couple of minor differences. Max 5 costs $700. Do the math. It's a deal no matter how you swing it.

And if you don't have any idea what you're getting with M4L, then you probably don't need it anyway. Using other people's patches is only using about 2% of what the software actually is.

[senator adam]

$300 is ridiculous, and even the $210 they are offering to the newsletter subscribers is too much to get any serious movement on it.

Only if you have no idea what you're getting with M4L. M4L is Max 5 with a couple of minor differences. Max 5 costs $700. Do the math. It's a deal no matter how you swing it.

And if you don't have any idea what you're getting with M4L, then you probably don't need it anyway. Using other people's patches is only using about 2% of what the software actually is.

The anger is with people who have bought many upgrades since many versions past (and also for a recent super buggy one), and now newbies can play with it on their first buy, but the people that pumped money into the company to keep it going have to pay once again.. Whether it's a deal or not, it still hurts the loyal customers. But that's business...

Most will wait till the next version of Live where M4L will be expected free (hopefully). I sure am. After spending money on software that crashes 5+ times a day, I'm not giving any more money..

[AceLuby]

$300 is ridiculous, and even the $210 they are offering to the newsletter subscribers is too much to get any serious movement on it.

Only if you have no idea what you're getting with M4L. M4L is Max 5 with a couple of minor differences. Max 5 costs $700. Do the math. It's a deal no matter how you swing it.

And if you don't have any idea what you're getting with M4L, then you probably don't need it anyway. Using other people's patches is only using about 2% of what the software actually is.

I'm a software developer, not some idiot off the street. I'd love to dive in to it, I just can't at the prices they offer, I'm still recovering from my purchase of the suite. It may be a great deal, so are $800 macbooks, doesn't mean I'm any less priced out.

I'll probably end up buying it, just not during this deal at this time.

[LoopStationZebra]

Yeah, value is always a relative thing. For ST, it's serious value because he knows Max and can work in that environment with no problem. It's a big part of his musical world. (Don't want to put words in your mouth, ST, but it seems like you love the tool and use it all the time..). $300 is a BARGAIN for anyone WHO IS ACTUALLY CREATING PATCHES. The value of $300 comes with the fact that he's PROGRAMMING the motherfucker to do his bidding.

Q. Why the fuck should anyone who ISN'T creating patches have to spend $300? Or even $210?
A. We're not.

Again, I just do simply not understand why there is not a runtime version. Makes absolutely no fucking sense. Never has, never will. Ableton or C74, to my knowledge, haven't even explained WHY there isn't a runtime, lol.

Fail.

FAIL.

[LoopStationZebra]

It's the same with Flash vs. Flash player.

It's the same with Max vs Runtime Max.

No.

Fucking.

Sense.

[LoopStationZebra]

It's the same with Acrobat Pro vs Acrobat Reader.

It's the same with AutoCAD vs AutoCAD viewer.

I can keep going, you know. '

But hopefully my point has been made.

[stringtapper]

Yeah, value is always a relative thing. For ST, it's serious value because he knows Max and can work in that environment with no problem. It's a big part of his musical world. (Don't want to put words in your mouth, ST, but it seems like you love the tool and use it all the time..). $300 is a BARGAIN for anyone WHO IS ACTUALLY CREATING PATCHES. The value of $300 comes with the fact that he's PROGRAMMING the motherfucker to do his bidding.

Yeah that's pretty much how it is for me. Max is perfect for the way I want to use a computer to make music. M4L makes Max even more accessible through Live. From my perspective $300 is a steal for what M4L is, especially when you compare it to the prices of various softsynths and effects plugins.

Q. Why the fuck should anyone who ISN'T creating patches have to spend $300? Or even $210?
A. We're not.

Again, I just do simply not understand why there is not a runtime version. Makes absolutely no fucking sense. Never has, never will. Ableton or C74, to my knowledge, haven't even explained WHY there isn't a runtime, lol.

Fail.

FAIL.

I guess the allure of what M4L can be (a shell to run loads of new and different devices) even without 98% of what it actually is (a programming language) taken into account is just too great for people to ignore it, yet not great enough for them want to pay for it. I wonder if Ableton put their heads together and created a whole line of Granulator-quality devices whether people would be willing to pay for it, or if the mental roadblock of "I don't code" would still somehow cause folks to clamor for a cheaper solution?

As I've said before, people could just ignore it, right?

Ableton will probably not be hiring me to their marketing department any time soon.

[fingerprince]

Well done ableton
Pr disaster
I paid a fortune for the suite which just didn't work for way too long
But I kept the faith - just
Then you give all the new users m4L for free in addition to their live suite which works "properly"
Then offer the faithful 30% off
You do see?
Surely tell me you see
Not happy and frankly vaguely insulted

[Cezband]

"Upgrade your software and get an amazing discount on the Scotmaster 9000 Ultimate Bagpipes.
These really are the best bagpipes you can get, and with the discount it's even more of a steal!
We know that because you use instruments in your songs, you'll want to spend time and effort learning the bagpipes...so why not get the best bagpipes you can buy?
And it won't stop there...look forward to more and more bagpipe functionality in future versions!

You're welcome, loyal customers!"

[stringtapper]

Blessed is the man who can play the bagpipes…


…and doesn't.