Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Angstrom
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by Angstrom » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:07 pm

it's been covered before in numerous posts by Ableton staff
EG:
Ableton_David wrote:Let's squash this one - Bitwig and Ableton are two different companies, and Bitwig Studio is not Live 9.
viewtopic.php?p=1371554#p1371554


there was a much longer post by someone else from Ableton, but I can't remember who it was so can't search for it. They basically said

---
edit, it was from Carl
viewtopic.php?p=1381772#p1381772
CarlSeleborg wrote:Hi Leipies,

It seems to me that we're not doing anything differently than Bitwig. Just like them, we spend a lot of time working on the next version (the first in their case), and when we feel we're ready, we announce it and then it takes a little while before the actual release. For 3 years, Bitwig said no word about what their software would do, just like Ableton has always done. I see little difference here!

Believe me, we're not asleep! A lot of us would just love to tell you guys about Live 9, because it will be a kick-ass release. It's a little frustrating for us as well, but that's the game. On the other hand, Bitwig just announced their software, which they've been working hard on for a long time, so it's only fair that they get their share of attention now.

However you're right on one point: we do welcome competition! We've been sitting alone in our market segment for a very long time, and there's nothing better than competition to wake you up and release the good creative energy, and boy do we have that in store! We're very much looking forward to competing on features, user benefit and innovation, but please bear with us if we choose not to play the Internet-buzz game, because it's not in our values and we're working hard on stuff that matters instead.

Let's wait for Bitwig Studio to be released, and may the best product win!

Carl

actually I bet that's where this idea of "they are waiting for Bitwig to release" came from, that last sentence. I think Carl actually meant: it will be interesting to see exactly what they have got. Nothing more than that.

donmich
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by donmich » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:40 pm

Thanks Angstrom. I've only been coming around only fairly recently. Its nice to know. And I think youre correct that's probably the source.

c33
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by c33 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:36 pm

Angstrom wrote:I think Carl actually meant: it will be interesting to see exactly what they have got. Nothing more than that.
And perhaps it's also a subtle suggestion for those treating Bitwig like the second coming to maybe wait until they’ve actually used the software ; )

plox
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by plox » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:01 am

informative...
L9 release will eclipse all others!

keefbaker
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by keefbaker » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:57 am

TBH I don't think they're waiting for bitwig. I think they're just waiting until they have everything they want in and everything stable.

IMO they're hoping to not repeat what happened with Ableton 8 which is where they released this fantastic, feature-rich package that was sadly unstable and buggy.

I have a feeling they want it to be stable as possible from the get-go, and I for one am willing to wait.

friend_kami
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by friend_kami » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:48 pm

keefbaker wrote:TBH I don't think they're waiting for bitwig. I think they're just waiting until they have everything they want in and everything stable.

IMO they're hoping to not repeat what happened with Ableton 8 which is where they released this fantastic, feature-rich package that was sadly unstable and buggy.

I have a feeling they want it to be stable as possible from the get-go, and I for one am willing to wait.
considering the clusterfuck that was L8 i'd assume that if they DIDN'T wait and release something was as horribly unstable as L8 they would pretty much put the last nail in their own coffin.

Machinesworking
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:56 am

Angstrom wrote: actually I bet that's where this idea of "they are waiting for Bitwig to release" came from, that last sentence. I think Carl actually meant: it will be interesting to see exactly what they have got. Nothing more than that.
Yeah, though that's pretty much saying, "Might as well see what they bring to the table before we play our hand." Nothing to read into it, just a simple not un-rational assumption that they can wait and see what Bitwig actually bring. In fact I would go as far as to say that at this point it wouldn't make any sense for Ableton to announce Live 9 until Bitwig is at least in public beta.


So yes, if Live 9 is essentially done, they are waiting on Bitwig, any company would. If not then.. :x

friend_kami
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by friend_kami » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:21 am

so let's assume that ableton Is indeed waiting for bitwig (which i doubt), then why in the hell would they already have live 9 done?
why on earth would they want to spend 2+ years waiting for a company, while developing something to the beta/rtm state, if the whole idea behind waiting for this company is to see "what they bring"?

if anything, they should in that case wait for BWS to be released and THEN start to develop live 9 as a counter method to BWS.

donmich
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by donmich » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:36 am

friend_kami wrote:so let's assume that ableton Is indeed waiting for bitwig (which i doubt), then why in the hell would they already have live 9 done?
why on earth would they want to spend 2+ years waiting for a company, while developing something to the beta/rtm state, if the whole idea behind waiting for this company is to see "what they bring"?

if anything, they should in that case wait for BWS to be released and THEN start to develop live 9 as a counter method to BWS.
Then we would be waiting till 2015.

synthcom
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by synthcom » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:31 am

Come on please.
That would mean ableton waits for bitwig to release,then looks at the features and how stable it is
AND THEN?
Programm additional features for competition?.

Able ton can't benefit from waiting till bitwig is released, cause they couldn't quick enough do changes
to live for competition.

I'm in sales for over 20 years now, and it's always better to be first with your product.
And the sucessfull companies are the ones who mainly concentrate on their path ( wich is well decided and
of course market and competition orientated - and not wait to see and then react )

Pro Ableton
They know what users want and can deliver if they are smart.

Pro Bitwig
They are new and we are all consume whores.

Bitwig has nothing new, in fact they copied live in extreme way AND did details smarter.
( in their anouncement, by the way....)

synthcom
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by synthcom » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:32 am

friend_kami wrote:so let's assume that ableton Is indeed waiting for bitwig (which i doubt), then why in the hell would they already have live 9 done?
why on earth would they want to spend 2+ years waiting for a company, while developing something to the beta/rtm state, if the whole idea behind waiting for this company is to see "what they bring"?

if anything, they should in that case wait for BWS to be released and THEN start to develop live 9 as a counter method to BWS.
Amd that would be irrational and not sucessfull.

nowtime
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by nowtime » Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:18 pm

If they ARE waiting it is probably more along the lines of "do we include Suite and Max as standard or do we charge extra and extra".

donmich
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by donmich » Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:58 pm

Well in the end it seems ableton_david, amidst good natured teasing, straightforwardly denied they are waiting on bitwig. He could have just ignored the thread but...
They, as with most sales and Marketing professionals are aware that being vulnerable OR superior to merely nitpickety features from a competitor is not a position of strength. Once you are in that game your only next step is really growth (or taking marketshare) through M&A and/or buyout from larger inefficient companies with shareholders who dont care about the product and will suck the company of all its capital and, generate topline revenue at all costs and then either bankrupt or flip the company. Once that even starts happening QC and loyalty both from and towards key internal influencers starts to suffer. The future becomes easy to predict from that point. (This seems to be at the root of specualtion about Mac/Ableton or an exodus of talent to Bitwig). And a rumour such as this one could be potentially more damaging than any of the usual ramblings from the enthusiastic peanut gallery.
Anyway such features are only a short term competitive advantage or disadvantage. Abe's strength will be based on something quite different and in addition to what bitwig will offer, Im sure.

JuanSOLO
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Re: Abe waiting on Bitwig?

Post by JuanSOLO » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:37 am

I had not seen that post from Carl till now, it was refreshing to read, and somewhat validates my hopes.

Seems to me bitwig will be like Live 8 with added features and a lot of missing features, so far it seems to be typical features, not innovative ones

If Live 9 comes with these popular/expected typical features, they win.
If Live 9 comes with these plus innovation, they win.

I'm just glad to hear Carl sound modestly confident that Ableton is about to deliver something better.
Also he really puts all the whining into perspective, about Ableton not providing information about Live 9 for 3 years.
If anyone has actually been following the bitwig guys for over a year, then you know only recently did they even post a few screen grabs of knobs and buttons.

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