LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
H20nly
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Location: The Wild West

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by H20nly » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:41 am

good night... i just got a call from a friend across the street asking me if i want steak and lobster off his grill...


uh yeah i f@#king want steak and lobster off your grill :arrow:


good luck... hang in there... Live 9 isn't out yet, you've come too far to write it off, ride it out instead. just a little longer.

peace.


steak and lobster :arrow: :arrow:

sdfak1234
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:40 am

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:43 am

ze2be wrote:you might have it there. Old "clunky" code may very well be the reason. I remember they once said they needed to do a complete rewrite to get session automation done. Maybe they didnt make it in time due to all the Live 8 bug fixings after the release, and made sort of a workaround code for now. Its only speculations, but it does seem logical that they would rewrite the code for live 10. Especially if what you have herd is true. It sounds logical. Cubase did the same thing. Ive used cubase since 1990. SX was a complete rewrite. Cubase VST was a mess in the end.
very poor decision not to start rewriting sooner, I think loads of people were expecting Live 9 to be the rewrite... I was almost certain it would be, the PDC problem indicates very little has actually changed. I mean this is the reason why someone like Bitwig with it's fresh code can quickly develop features that Live spent years developing

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:44 am

H20nly wrote:good night... i just got a call from a friend across the street asking me if i want steak and lobster off his grill...


uh yeah i f@#king want steak and lobster off your grill :arrow:


good luck... hang in there... Live 9 isn't out yet, you've come too far to write it off, ride it out instead. just a little longer.

peace.


steak and lobster :arrow: :arrow:
enjoy dude. I have to wait a little longer but I also have to suspend hope due to beta evidence :(

it would be amazing if Live could one day fulfill the promise of the expectations it set many years ago, but 10 major revisions to finish the core, bloody hell.

ze2be
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by ze2be » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:57 am

sdfak1234 wrote:very poor decision not to start rewriting sooner, I think loads of people were expecting Live 9 to be the rewrite... I was almost certain it would be, the PDC problem indicates very little has actually changed. I mean this is the reason why someone like Bitwig with it's fresh code can quickly develop features that Live spent years developing
The Bitwig guys actually worked in Ableton HQ as programers, and quit just before live 8 was released. It has been speculated that they did so because they wanted a rewrite sooner then the company wanted. And so decided to have a go themself.

Happy grilling H2Only! Lobster on the grill...yummy!

Ill go get some sleep actually, its like 4 in the morning over here. Oh, and its my birthday already, dammit! Maybe ill have some lobster when I wake up ;)

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:59 am

ze2be wrote:
sdfak1234 wrote:very poor decision not to start rewriting sooner, I think loads of people were expecting Live 9 to be the rewrite... I was almost certain it would be, the PDC problem indicates very little has actually changed. I mean this is the reason why someone like Bitwig with it's fresh code can quickly develop features that Live spent years developing
The Bitwig guys actually worked in Ableton HQ as programers, and quit just before live 8 was released. It has been speculated that they did so because they wanted a rewrite sooner then the company wanted. And so decided to have a go themself.

Happy grilling H2Only! Lobster on the grill...yummy!

Ill go get some sleep actually, its like 4 in the morning over here. Oh, and its my birthday already, dammit! Maybe ill have some lobster when I wake up ;)
happy birthday dude and sleep well! - I'd get in on this lobster action but I'm allergic :(

ze2be
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by ze2be » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:02 am

sdfak1234 wrote:happy birthday dude and sleep well! - I'd get in on this lobster action but I'm allergic :(
Thanks! I also have some alergies. Like apples and other nice fruits. Sucks. Good night. :)

Angstrom
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by Angstrom » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:21 am

ze2be wrote:The Bitwig guys actually worked in Ableton HQ as programers, and quit just before live 8 was released. It has been speculated that they did so because they wanted a rewrite sooner then the company wanted. And so decided to have a go themself.
that's one hilarious bit of speculation!

So,they left Ableton right at the start of the big Ableton bug fix/rewrite ... because they wanted to get on with rewriting? At the same time as Ableton were fixing the code, they also wanted to fix the code, so they ... left.

As theories go that's a pretty weird one!

I'd aim more for a theory like this one:
Ableton is now quite a large company, and they decided it would be way more fun to work small and nimble. To put in all the fun ideas they came up with, rather than run everything past a committee of every-damn-body. Also, they would be the bosses. So they started a small company, because it was more fun.

that's my theory. Based on people liking fun and adventure.

RD444
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by RD444 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:24 am

ze2be wrote:
sdfak1234 wrote: if Live9 doesn't have PDC on automation, then Ableton is a JOKE, and have been wasting loyal followers time for years and years, it's a travesty and an insult to us all.
Look, if you want to make people listen to you, I would humbly suggest you to cool down and change your tone a bit. And your personal anger does not speak from us all, even though some of us agree that pdc can be troublesome in certain situations.
His anger speaks for me

I am personally this angry about the LIVE 9 insult.

ABLETON LIVE being a "NON-PROFESSIONAL product NOT BEING FIXED"

It is Forum Fanboys blogging about how "SUPER DOOPER live 9 is.." that con new users into parting with cash.

In order for the BAD to be BAD it takes the GOOD to keep their mouth shut.

Ableton don't care about this or YOU, and they are not your mate


get it together

people have the right to be angry if they buy a faulty product.

I'm campaigning for a sticker on the box saying "PDC WARNING Live does not sequence all information in time" (any graphic designers out there :twisted: )

I humbly suggest you realise this
"Plugin Delay compensation -PDC WARNING - Ableton Live 9 does not sequence all information correctly in time"
The bigger the project the more out of time it will be.

Hoffoman
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:34 pm

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by Hoffoman » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:31 am

sdfak1234 wrote:The only thing Ableton gave a damn about was their new controller so they could make bigger margins - same with Live8 and the APC... without core improvements, Live9 is pathetic, session automation should've been there all along and won't even work well without proper PDC, the browser is rudimentary/also should've been improved a long time ago. Midi editing features, super basic. New sounds and FX??? yawn, what a disgrace. The same app with one fixed feature (not a new feature) and more bloat on top. 3 years and to top it off this company thinks so little of us that we don't deserve any communication or dialog??? what kind of delusion is this? the dream/fantasy is over. wake up.

I'm a programmer myself, I run a software company and I could've rewritten Live on my own in 3 years. W.T.F.!

You know whats messed up too, I just assumed PDC was fixed and that would make this a great update because all the other features would work properly then, but the lack of core improvements just makes these new features look ridiculous.

I'm going to make sure this issue is at least addressed in publications when Live9 goes out for review, that should be easy enough.
+1

petit nuage
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by petit nuage » Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:24 am

if live 9 dont have an improved pdc, i will be very interested to see what the bitwig's creature will have to offer...and the price too..maybe a crossgrade offer if you use live ? :wink:


could you give me an advice ....coming from live... wich is the clearer and simpler/faster to learn and the more ergonomical to work with between studio one and reaper ?
and dont answer ..LIVE !!! :D
Last edited by petit nuage on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

petit nuage
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by petit nuage » Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:59 am

if behind the pdc problem is the ableton 's schyzophrenic positioning between the dj/live side of the soft and the producer side, IMho they must take a decision but NOW, for this version and they must communicate about their vision of live's future !

Ghost Mutt
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:57 pm

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by Ghost Mutt » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:40 pm

Everyone's seen this yeah?

Live has a so called "playthrough optimization" which disables the plugin delay compensation for all tracks that are record-ready or have the "Monitor" switch set to "IN". The reason is that we assume that you want to play a software instrument (or resp. monitor an audio input) with the lowest possible latency. In other words, you will only get the latency of your audio interface + the latency of the actual plugin device instead of the overall latency of the entire project.

You can disable the "playthrough optimization" with the option.txt entry:

-StrictDelayCompensation

This disables Live's play-through optimization.

When delay compensation is on, don't play-through optimize (favor exact sync over low latency).

For more info about the Option txt, please see:
http://www.ableton.com/pages/faq/options_text

RD444
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by RD444 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:49 pm

Ghost Mutt wrote:Everyone's seen this yeah?

Live has a so called "playthrough optimization" which disables the plugin delay compensation for all tracks that are record-ready or have the "Monitor" switch set to "IN". The reason is that we assume that you want to play a software instrument (or resp. monitor an audio input) with the lowest possible latency. In other words, you will only get the latency of your audio interface + the latency of the actual plugin device instead of the overall latency of the entire project.

You can disable the "playthrough optimization" with the option.txt entry:

-StrictDelayCompensation

This disables Live's play-through optimization.

When delay compensation is on, don't play-through optimize (favor exact sync over low latency).

For more info about the Option txt, please see:
http://www.ableton.com/pages/faq/options_text
dude there is a setting in the menu that does this now.

TRY this

PDC

- Play some music
- jam some automation .......
- add a few plugs
- oh no everything is all out of time a rubbish

PDC take 2

- Play some music
- add a few plugs with tempo sync (like a filter with LFO)........
- add another plug before it...
- oh no everything is all out of time a rubbish
"Plugin Delay compensation -PDC WARNING - Ableton Live 9 does not sequence all information correctly in time"
The bigger the project the more out of time it will be.

RD444
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by RD444 » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:50 pm

i emailed BitWig to ask about PDC today

Lets hold out for the "Ableton Live drop out bitwig" team

FFS Bitwig is going to be crap isnt it :D
"Plugin Delay compensation -PDC WARNING - Ableton Live 9 does not sequence all information correctly in time"
The bigger the project the more out of time it will be.

ze2be
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Location: Europe

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by ze2be » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:05 pm

Ghost Mutt wrote:Live has a so called "playthrough optimization" which disables the plugin delay compensation for all tracks that are record-ready or have the "Monitor" switch set to "IN". The reason is that we assume that you want to play a software instrument (or resp. monitor an audio input) with the lowest possible latency. In other words, you will only get the latency of your audio interface + the latency of the actual plugin device instead of the overall latency of the entire project.

You can disable the "playthrough optimization" with the option.txt entry
Hmm, interesting. But this seems to work for "monitor" and "in" only. Have you tried it? I also get huge latency on plugs and fx racks in sends.

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