All times are UTC

 
 



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2375 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134 ... 159  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:56 pm 

Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:33 pm
Posts: 518
H20nly wrote:
simpli.cissimus wrote:
Looking at Bitwig, I could add more then 10 innovations(already done in many post's)
including that all what Live offers is already in Bitwig too.

Bitwig is also fresh from start programmed and has 64bit really working,
where Ableton them self not recommending it(if I'm right)

All these are facts and not made up !

Bitwig developers were the ones with the ideas, but I think some managers wanted to
leave the innovative side and "Push" Live to a money maker.


i just can't help but laugh at these posts... you compare an actual piece of software that is on the market, while some users are complaining (as always) others are perfectly happy with it... yet you compare it to a piece of software that isn't even commercially available or available as a demo... and that essentially exists as a few .jpegs .gifs and as a lot of hype... but this doesn't stop you from speaking of the two products as if the playing field is actually level.



then you have the BUT IT SHOULD DO IT THIS WAY crowd who refuse any workaround that isn't released as a .x update or when suggested to Ableton believe that their response should be a long thank you note with kudos for being so innovative, a potential job offer and a promise to get coding on that idea ASAP

what a bunch of Id-centric self-junkies :roll:

I'm not sure if my English is so bad or you just like to interpret what you want... :roll:

_________________
No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 23575
Location: SF, CA
Angstrom wrote:
Meanwhile, some users dismiss any issues raised as trivial nit-picking
As if to say "it doesn't affect me, so you guys are ID centric"

Some users dismiss any excitement about a product which contains features they are looking forward to. Some users dismiss other peoples concerns, problems, requirements, and excitement that these might be addressed.
Dismiss them all you like, but I can't help but laugh at these ID centric posts.

dismissed.

end of the day it's good for all of us when Live or Bitwig are criticized. the problem I see is that some of these guys are very poor writers.

_________________
oddstep wrote:
I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:06 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:07 am
Posts: 1426
Quote:
the problem I see is that some of these guys are very poor writers.


The problem as I see it is that people are way too quick to conflate minor bugs or inconveniences in their workflow with a showstopping, application-crippling flaws in the fundamental design and basic functioning of the program, and you end up with a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation when it comes to people reporting legitimate flaws.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:11 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:35 pm
Posts: 404
Location: UK
agent314 wrote:
The problem as I see it is that people are way too quick to conflate minor bugs or inconveniences in their workflow with a showstopping, application-crippling flaws in the fundamental design and basic functioning of the program, and you end up with a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation when it comes to people reporting legitimate flaws.


Er------go!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm
Posts: 9959
WOLF ! :twisted:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:45 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 23575
Location: SF, CA
little boy wrote:
WOLF ! :twisted:

_________________
oddstep wrote:
I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:27 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Posts: 13005
Location: The Wild West
agent314 wrote:
Quote:
the problem I see is that some of these guys are very poor writers.


The problem as I see it is that people are way too quick to conflate minor bugs or inconveniences in their workflow with a showstopping, application-crippling flaws in the fundamental design and basic functioning of the program, and you end up with a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation when it comes to people reporting legitimate flaws.


this.

we have a program that can do so many different things so many different ways but while jumping up and down about how debilitating it is that it still can't do something it has never been able to do in one specific scenario... yet there are multiple ways to achieve the task at hand... that's not nit-picking?

hypothetical... whatever... i'll be ID-centric too.

now, let me get back to that Bitwig demo... oh wait... there isn't one. :|


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:31 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Posts: 13005
Location: The Wild West
Angstrom wrote:
Meanwhile, some users dismiss any issues raised as trivial nit-picking
As if to say "it doesn't affect me, so you guys are ID centric"

Some users dismiss any excitement about a product which contains features they are looking forward to. Some users dismiss other peoples concerns, problems, requirements, and excitement that these might be addressed.
Dismiss them all you like, but I can't help but laugh at these ID centric posts.


happy to contribute to your amusement!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:35 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:29 pm
Posts: 189
Angstrom wrote:
agent314 wrote:
Quote:
"In a gold rush, sell shovels"


Are you talking about the updates to 9 in particular, or the Push functionality?

Also, very aptly put


I would say that for both products. When they considered what was important to include and what their prospective purchasers might value, it seems that things like " accessing and previewing partner content" is top of the list, while "managing existing/user content" wasn't actually on the list.


The new browser didn't prioritise user content, user organisation methods, user creative requirements and circumstances. Instead it prioritised partner content, partner organisation methods, partner requirements.
Notice how the author/creator is just a nested folder called"other" in their arbitrary categories , and know where you stand in their conception.

Of all of our various working methods, situations, musics, organisation methods. Whose does this conform to?
Or do we conform to it?


This is probably the most on-the-mark and eloquent critique of Live 9 I have seen. Its the kind of thing that many people might instinctively feel but cant quite articulate. It exposes possible philosophical flaws (whether they were conscious or not) that I would like to believe ableton wouldnt want to be labelled with - rather than just technical flaws and irritants.
I personally feel its an insight which is important for ableton to hear, and suggest posting it as an "open letter" on its own. Its too burried in this thread.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:39 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 23575
Location: SF, CA
donmich wrote:
This is probably the most on-the-mark and eloquent critique of Live 9 I have seen. Its the kind of thing that many people might instinctively feel but cant quite articulate. It exposes possible philosophical flaws (whether they were conscious or not) that I would like to believe ableton wouldnt want to be labelled with - rather than just technical flaws and irritants.
I personally feel its an insight which is important for ableton to hear, and suggest posting it as an "open letter" on its own. Its too burried in this thread.

repost it in the Feature Request forum.

_________________
oddstep wrote:
I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:28 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 1305
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Angstrom wrote:
Notice how the author/creator is just a nested folder called"other" in their arbitrary categories , and know where you stand in their conception.
?


Not sure why people keep applauding this post of yours, when, factually speaking, it is completely inaccurate. "Other" folder? Arbitrary categories? The first doesn't exist, and the second is provably wrong.

User content is stored in "User Library" (quite a far cry from 'Other'...) which exists under "Places." Partner content, in case you haven't noticed, also exists under "Places." So the user content ('user library') and partner content ('packs') are nested into exactly the same location within the browser.

The "categories" section above both -- while very clunky for sure -- is designed as a tagging-based system that globally references -all- the content stored throughout the 'places,' be it from a partner or from a user. I don't think it works very well, but it certainly doesn't discriminate against the user the way you apparently think it does.

_________________
Image
/ dead when i found her online: http://dwifh.com
/ industrial music by dead when i found her at: http://www.soundcloud.com/deadwhenifoundher


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:33 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 12591
mholloway wrote:
Angstrom wrote:
Notice how the author/creator is just a nested folder called"other" in their arbitrary categories , and know where you stand in their conception.
?


Not sure why people keep applauding this post of yours, when, factually speaking, it is completely inaccurate. "Other" folder? Arbitrary categories? The first doesn't exist, and the second is provably wrong.

User content is stored in "User Library" (quite a far cry from 'Other'...) which exists under "Places." Partner content, in case you haven't noticed, also exists under "Places." So the user content ('user library') and partner content ('packs') are nested into exactly the same location within the browser.

Explanation: Up until a very late Beta any user content saved in places appeared in an "Others" folder. That is - if you saved an Analog preset it appeared in Categories/Analog/Others, alongside any other uncategorised content from packs, or users. The folder Other is now gone it seems, user content is placed in the root of the category. This must have been a late change.

My point stands: that the initial conception to have an author folder grouped anonymously with tonality folders was borne out of very peculiar idea of "what users want from a dynamic browser"

You say the categories are "provably" not arbitrary?
Did you choose your own categories?
Can you add or delete categories?
Can you add a top-level categoric filter grouping of "My Live Presets"
Can you add a second Level filter/folder grouping of "My Live Presets"

the categories and sub-sections are not editable, they are chosen by Ableton.

Quote:
The "categories" section above both -- while very clunky for sure -- is designed as a tagging-based system


Categories scans OS folders to use them in the categorisation scheme, but it's not a tagging system. A true taxonomic system would be flexible and non-exclusive, where tags for tonality would allow a sound to be both Bass and Brass (and Synth .. etc.), not to exclusively belong to just one tonality.

They created a DB driven browser to replace the limited hierarchy of the OS file-tree, but then imposed a hierarchic categorisation on it that we cannot change! I am specifically talking about Categories here. Why create this new dynamic and Database driven browser if the part that is most dynamic is the most fixed and inflexible?

Where is the advantage for the user of these pre-chosen 'dynamic' Categories section? That they are learnable ? What then of the case of "all alone pad" (the pad which exists in Ambient and evolving), how do we learn this system? How is it more powerful than a plain OS tree heirarchy?


Quote:
... a tagging-based system that globally references -all- the content stored throughout the 'places,' be it from a partner or from a user. I don't think it works very well, but it certainly doesn't discriminate against the user the way you apparently think it does.


Well, I agree that since they have removed "/Others" in the release version it certainly means that user creations are now at least at the child level of each category rather than relegated to anonymity. However, my point was that different users prioritise different things in different circumstances - and that is each user's core browsing/searching requirement.

When they were specifying this dynamic database driven browser, Their starting point was to please a wide variety of user-types trying to filter a massive amount of disparate data in varied circumstances. To address this varied usage Ableton gave us this browser.

It sits on a big database and ought to allow us to add categories, groupings, taxonomic attributes, all quickly and to our requirements.It ought to allow us to order and present our content as we need it.

I am glad that many users like the browser, however - for me it has made me stick with Live 8. Please try to understand that the nature of presenting a FIXED browser means for some it will NOT work with them, but against them. This seems odd for a dynamic DB driven browser.

_________________
site


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:54 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
Posts: 2680
Location: beneath mouse mountain
Is there any actual news about Bitwig? Is a release expected any time soon?

_________________
workshop
soundcloud
mixes


live 9.1.2, OS mavericks, push, stray's script, MPD32/LD8, stc, access virus kc, and my life is a never ending tub of awesome


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:59 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:16 pm
Posts: 467
The Finn wrote:
Is there any actual news about Bitwig? Is a release expected any time soon?


I've been on the beta list but nothing yet. Some Live users have crowned Bitwig "King of DAWs". It's like people who think caviar is great until they taste it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:11 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
Posts: 2680
Location: beneath mouse mountain
You've been on the beta list. Does that mean you're beta testing? Is there a beta out yet?

_________________
workshop
soundcloud
mixes


live 9.1.2, OS mavericks, push, stray's script, MPD32/LD8, stc, access virus kc, and my life is a never ending tub of awesome


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2375 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134 ... 159  Next

All times are UTC

 
 

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group