)He speaks the truth. But, for a slightly askew analogy--anyone can buy a fender strat, but only someone who has talent and has practiced can actually be good at it. I guess its a lot easier for DJ's to hide behind someone elses' track, and with such quantity of music availible to DJ, its hard to know what is original, what is off-the-shelf, what is a mix when you hear it. I guess in the end we all know deep down what we do, if we create, or just remix others' tracks. And even if people can use Live 5 to do un-original DJ material, it still allows us to do what we want. In the end, as an experienced Live user, I feel like I can go to a performance of someone using Live and be able to hear and see how good they actually are with Live, and what they are doing. Live can be an instrument too, in the hands of creative people that experiment with sounds and making them, not just mixing two records together.timothyallan wrote:Well said, I wholeheartedly concur with Mr. Breaks.
There's not many of us, but some people use Live to loop live instruments (bass, guitar, keys, drums, sax, etc.) in live performances. People seem to totally not know this, or think it is possible, or something. But it is very possible, and our audiences at shows are definitely interested in what they are seeing, interested in the technology allowing what they are hearing/seeing to happen--especially musicians and computer nerds. EVERY show we have at least a few of either of these asking all sorts of pertinent questions. Live can be an instrument, and sets using live can easily incorporate live instrumentation--our duo, Mixed Bag, consists of me on Live, looping bass,keys, and drums, and a guitarist who is playing more or less the whole time (I loop his parts too). Anyhow, just wanted to say, don't count Live out as a tool for use with Live instruments, indeed as the most powerful looper availible on the planet (loop stations, boomerangs, line6, and even echoples's be damned).astar wrote:I have to agree here too with Mr Breaks. Ableton Live is an amazing concept but it has a long way to go before it will compete with REAL live music. We are confined to a grid and that can be very frustrating for those of us who actually play instruments. I have a love it or hate it relationship with Live for this reason. It is by far the most creative electronic sequencing tool but mixing pre-warped loops still falls way short of playing a real musical instrument.
The problem with sequenced music (it is doomed to be it's downfall until the end of time) is this "grid". Sure we have "groove quantize" (actually Live doesn't have it yet, grrr
This is why DJs deserve less respect. I would rather see a good live band any day than listen to a guy who triggers pre-warped loops and has "good track selection".
That being said, there is still a huge amount of creative potential to be found in this software and that's why I bought LIVE and it's why I keep reading these forums because I know there are some of us devoted to squeezing the creative juice out of LIVE as best we can (to overshadow the 1000s of others who will be making horrible uninspired mash up remix tunes)
cheers
and good thread!
c'mon man, is it really that hard to put a record on a turntable, or possibly even mix two record together--it is not that hard dude. Try learning to play guitar of keyboard or drums sufficiently well to go out and perfrom in front of an audience--it takes a hell of a lot longer to get proficient and confident on a instrument than to buy some wax and spin it at the local dance floor. He made a distinction between turntablists and DJ's, and his point is valid--it doesn't take that much talent OR pratice to spin someone else's tunes--with vinyl or with Live. Maybe I'm missing something, and I'm sure you'll say how much you have to know what's gong on in music, how you can read the crowd and play just the right top 40 hit at the right time, but spinning records isn't that hard. Killer scratching, or using 4 turntables at once spinning your own wax (RJD2--killer show live) takes talent and practice. Composing your own music from scratch (not just hacking together a bunch of loops on cds) takes talent and some knowledge of how music works, why it sounds good. Bottom line of what montreal was sayin' is that it is all too easy to be a DJ--you buy (or jack mp3s on the net) someone else's music, then you play it. Maybe you add some effects or beats on top, maybe you have two (or even three!) different songs (or parts of them) going at once. You transition from one song to the next. Sure, people that are good at it have tons of vinyl and a knack for things that work together well, but the bottom line is that yo are a disk jockey--jockeying (for the most part) someone else's music, not yours. I think we can all agree it is easier to spin music than create it. It is easier to make music using loops and samples from various sources than to make all the sounds and parts on your own by playing instruments. Playing real instruments and being at a level where you can perform live, and to be able to listen and jam with others takes years of practice. Sure, DJ's with years of practice will be better than ones with two weeks, but either could surely get the gig and keep the dancefloor happy (they just want music to dance to, they don't care who made it, or whether your spinning someone else's mix on a ipod, or if you have Live, or 5 turntables--its just music to them (and can you pleaasee play that Britney Spears song DJ?)). Seriously though, I'd like to understand your point of view--what are the aspects of DJ'ing that are so hard to master that two weeks isn't enough. Given that you have the gear, the records, and a good knowledge of music and dance floors, what are the technical aspects that make you scoff to think that someone could be sufficient in two weeks. please enlighten.Patrick Tyler wrote:I laughed when you said you learned to dj in two weeks. Ha. Your a joke. I'm sure if you were spinning at a club you would be trainwrecking people off the dance floor. You are a tool/poser. Grow up and learn to respect the artform of deejaying. Some of the best producers in the world today, and or were deejays. Go read a book or talk to someone with a little more knowledge than you. Knowledge is power.
, with addition that for electronic dance music as we have it today the reverse is also true. there would be no musicians producing the kind of EDM we have today without DJs. the two feed into each other.agreed. i'm not saying that all djs are good and should be considered creative etc etc but to tar them all with the same brush is unfair and should really be avoided. in the same way that to consider all musicians in the same light as the poorer pop examples is also a mistake.hambone1 wrote:The DJ bashing may originate from the public's mindset of the "bangin' choonz" DJ attitude and the prerequisite shaved head/body piercings/head bobbing, etc trying to make putting somebody else's record on and putting a tonearm down look difficult. And laptop electronic musicians with their head-bobbing, filter-sweeping "talent" don't help the cause, either.
Until DJs earn the respect of their peers and public through the same dedication, talent, and hard work as proper musicians, they're going to continue to be looked down upon as musical wannabes. And when I refer to musicians, I discount anyone producing pop drivel.
In my opinion, we need another term to convey to the public what electronic musicians do. And DJ isn't it.
FWIW.
. (i speak from experience before anyone gets the wrong idea, i've been djing for 12 years).yep.hambone1 wrote:I don't mean to belittle all DJs or tar them all with the same brush.
They're a necessary part of the chain and required to help distribute the musician's work to the public.