Push 3 Standalone owners: Happy?

[Machinesworking]

Well, push 3 is positioned as an Instrument allowing you to play Ableton live, create music and connect back to live.

When you say should, in my view that is a projection of expectations. The simple truth is that push 3 is released with the functions as they are today and very consistent with the previous two hardware versions. We don’t know if and how it will evolve.

If that satisfies your needs is a different question, same if that represents value for you. For some not, for me it does.

The MPC and Maschine plus are very different platforms. The MPC is a full production platform and is positioned as such. Had it for a while but never really glued with it. It’s a big fellow and mpc live is a lot of menu diving imo, but a lot of people really really like it. Maschine plus is a very nice device but hits max cpu as soon as you start looking at it, sampling is not really easy and controlling the synths is limited to the native instruments macros. That is a personal view, but what I’m trying to say is that both these platforms have their own stengths and weaknesses.

Again, there's no logical reason that Push 3 Standalone with Live Suite capabilities should be less of a sequencer than the MPCs. Yes, that is how it is right now I understand that, it's very limited. I'm just always amazed at how prone to apologetics people are about this with companies like Ableton? Don't get me wrong I like them, but I'm not going to propose that standalone is like it is because push 2 does it that way. That's flatly a silly argument, because Push 2 is always 100% tied to a computer. Meaning Push 2 in it's natural environment is light years ahead of Push 3 in it's natural environment, without a computer. There's nothing to argue about there, pretending you can compare them in terms of functionality without addressing that Push 2 always has access to a laptop or computer is insane. Ableton have talked about getting some sort of way to arrange a song on standalone, multiple time signature support etc. etc. this isn't some sort of gripe they didn't see coming, and they probably were/are already working on it before Push 3 was released.

That said there's one for sale used locally for around $500 off if you include tax, I'm probably not capable of resisting the urge to purchase it.

[funkazoid]

What is silly is to continue projecting features and functionalities onto push that aren't there, have not been there and is not being advertised for by Ableton.

Also to say push is limited is incorrect. That very depends on what you are focussed on, and how it fits your workflow. Deep integration of a FM synth, Wavetable synthesis, analog modelling synths such as Drift and analog are not something I find on the MPC. There is nothing apologetic about that, it is sense of reality and understanding where push as a tool can help in your workflow instead of wishful thinking what it could and should be doing. If you are in need of a top of line sequencer, than probably push isn't the answer. The MPC would be a good candidate, but I could think of alternatives as well.

Push 2 connected to a computer is not light years ahead compared to push 3 stand alone.
When you have push connected to a desktop or laptop running Ableton, you have two workflows available to you.
One is interacting with a piece hardware ( Push) which you can utilise as an instrument to play particular parts of Ableton.
Two is interacting straight with the software.

Two very different workflows and interacting yourself with the software is not what Push brings you. Push 3 standalone brings you workflow number One but without the need of a desktop of laptop. It will not deliver you workflow number two.

Also it very much depends on how you work if Push works for you. If you plot samples over time in arrangement view or if your natural start is the arrangement view, than probably push is not the right tool for you. If you like playing notes and you natural start is the session view you could have a match with push.

So, there are a lot of nuances if Push 3 standalone works for you. And if this does not work for you, it does not mean Push3 standalone is a limited product, unfinished or that Ableton is conducting bad business. It simply means it does not fit your workflow or it does not address your expectations ( which could be unrealistic in the first place)

[GravityFlow]

So far I'm very happy with PUSH3s. It's simply redefining my approach to generate music. No fancy computer graphic animations that distract me from the sounds. With standalone I can be in my hammock at my favorite beach and make music. It's a universe of synths and sounds on my lap. It feels like an instrument in that moment. Like I brought my guitar to the beach. That's awesome. I'm concentrated on how it sounds, not how it looks (and the built-in soundcard sounds really good).
Yes, implementing follow actions in the clip view on standalone would be a great addition. And for sure: I have to adapt my workflow to this 'new' instrument. As always when learning a new instrument.
Limitations are annoying but at the same time they boost creativity. Looking for new solutions to 'old' problems is very satisfying. I implemented a workflow using different midi tracks, routing and built-in midi-fx that is working like a step sequencer with controlled randomness because the usual step sequencers aren't working on standalone. And after some time of trying I get the impression that I never had a better 'step-sequencer'. The melodic and rhythmic patterns are awesome and way more sophisticated than that of the m4l step-sequencers and the usual suspects.
Yep! I like the journey of learning a new instrument and I'm looking forward to the improvements to come!

[braduro]

Yes, I’m happy with my push. And I’m happy with the standalone features. I’m not exactly happy with the timing of the expense, but having been on Live since version 2 (seeing the first duos playing on 1), I figured my certification could be a very real thing in the foreseeable future. So instead of being the trailing edge of their push release, I took advantage of an event promotion and swallowed the pill, so to speak.

I can come up with a new idea, approach, experiment every time I sit down with the thing, and I’ve worked exclusively standalone. When I run out of tricks to try, I’ll plug it in to the computer.

It’s not so much feature sets as it is getting natural and practicing with those feature sets.

One example of controller mode being the suitable platform would be if you use multiple tunings. Sure, you could save multiple projects under different tunings, but the controller mode just saves you hours in your short life. There are plenty other examples, but this seems like an obvious reason to not fight it.

My guess is that the controller configuration is objectively more road worthy. I can break standalone. But I think we’re after the same results: stress testing it for performance. So I don’t resent the surprises. I’d rather it happen now, while I’m in the studio

[billpayer]

I'm still baffled that we can only select a sidechain input for the compressor from the Push3SA and not any other Ableton devices.
Maybe I'm an unusual case, but I make use of sidechaining really heavily and this has stopped me upgrading from Push2 to Push3.

[dougtheguy]

I’m pretty happy…why? The two greatest things out of the box to me anyway are:
1. The pads - just can’t find better in a 8x8
2. The sound library - top shelf in every way
These two areas together are tough to beat in a similar product.

I have an Akai force. While this is a pretty great device, it took years to refine its feature set. Also, I just did not like the pads. The other is that I found the sample libraries paled in comparison to the Ableton libraries.

Just a note on push missing features. Folks might want to explore adding an iPad to your rig. With Audiobus and an app or two, it can cover some of the missing features like acting as a sync bridge for link to midi clock. No plug ins on push…sometimes i use the Korg gadget libraries on iPad and also they are mirrored on the Mac/pc versions. I like them and they are super easy to use. There are tons of others to choose from. An iPad is easy to mount on a mic stand. You can find an older used one for like $100. The older processors like 8 run audio software just fine.

I expect it will take a couple years for push to get up to speed on some missing features that are no doubt really a pain.

[Rixende]

Very unhappy. Stability issues are still not resolved after a year. I bought it as a live performance tool. I don’t care about if every feature of Ableton is supported, I produce on the computer, perform on the P3s. In my experience, the more complex your set becomes the more likely it is to crash mid performance, which is completely unacceptable. It is advertised as being capable of running complex Ableton sets, and that is definitely not true. The more complex your set becomes, the stability drops exponentially. Also I was initially stoked about the idea of having a standalone Max/Msp playground. The reality is: don’t even think about running custom max patches on it, it will be a pure crash fest. Support is absolutely useless in helping you figure out what is going wrong. The only way of safely using it on stage is to freeze and bounce as many tracks as possible. At which point it becomes basically an overpriced backing track machine.

Not sure how my computer, which runs a full os with my emails, dozens of browser windows open, all kinds of software in the background, tons of third party plugins and it hasn’t been restarted in weeks, and it runs Ableton sets completely solid, while a dedicated Linux based standalone device keeps crashing.

I check for firmware updates every day. Recently 2.0.5 was released and it keeps telling me “update has failed” when I try to install it. I contacted the support about it and all they have to offer is telling me I should make sure my firmware is up to date. It is comical and sad at the same time. I talked to AI chatbots that were more helpful than that.

[AlexDLarge]

I guess it all depends on the final use you want to give to the P3 SA. For my part, the only thing I can say is that I am very happy with it. I program my own patches in M4L and except for those with Max objects that are not 100% supported, I have hardly had any crashes. As a M4L device development platform my experience is that it is solid. You just have to follow some specific premises to program for Push3. For my part, highly recommended.

[Rixende]

Of course I did make sure I am only using supported Max objects. And I never went much further than doing basic sample players. The result is always the same: I spend a day or two putting something together in M4L, just to find out that running the session on standalone crashes it after a minute or it won’t even load the set. Support never has any answers and it got so frustrating that I gave up on using M4L altogether.

It has really negatively impacted my musical output, because after I put together something I always wonder “is this going to crash P3s?”, “should I maybe first sync it and test it extensively to make sure it won’t crash before I take the session any further, or is it better to just play it safe and skip the complex parts altogether?”. It is really not a lot of fun working like that and trying to be creative.

[Pandamonia]

Hey everyone,

I wanted to share my recent experience with the Push 3 standalone, and unfortunately, it hasn't been a positive one. I regret buying it, and I've lost my trust in Ableton as a company. I feel completely let down by the misleading information about the product features.

When I first heard about the Push 3 standalone, I was excited about the possibilities it promised. However, after using it, it's clear that the device does not deliver the standalone features as advertised. It's frustrating to invest in something that doesn't meet the expectations set by the company. Until further updates are released, the Push 3 standalone feels like a failure. I'm done with supporting companies that mislead their customers about product capabilities. I hope Ableton takes these issues seriously and works to address them promptly.

The issues I've faced are echoed by many other users here on the forum:

1. **Limited Functionality**: As Machinesworking pointed out, the Push 3 standalone is very limited compared to its competitors. It's surprising how people defend Ableton by comparing it to Push 2, which always requires a computer. The standalone feature should make it more powerful, but it currently falls short.

2. **Stability Issues**: Rixende mentioned significant stability problems, especially during live performances. The more complex the set, the more likely it is to crash, which is unacceptable for a device marketed for live use. The idea of running custom Max patches is also far from reality due to frequent crashes.

3. **Incomplete Features**: Billpayer's frustration with the lack of comprehensive sidechain input options for the compressor is a critical limitation that stops many from upgrading.

4. **Workflow Limitations**: As funkazoid highlighted, Push 3 standalone might not suit everyone's workflow, especially if you rely on certain sequencing capabilities or complex arrangements.

5. **Support Issues**: The lack of effective support, as mentioned by several users, exacerbates these problems. When firmware updates fail to install and support provides no real solutions, it adds to the frustration.

The list is even longer but I guess this is not a random experience some users have that aimed their expectations too high.

Has anyone else had a similar experience? How are you dealing with the shortcomings? Let's hope Ableton addresses these issues soon, but for now, I'm very disappointed with my purchase so far.

[AlexDLarge]

Sorry to hear that. My experience is not as yours, but I hope Ableton will fix at least the major issues. I see a huge potential in this device and more people coming to it instead of running from it.

[JamesonB]

I have to agree with all you're saying PushSA should of never been released in it's current state and Ableton and Jesse Terry are energy vampires feeding off all our frustration and disappointment.

Push is the least standalone device I've ever encountered and Ableton should be taken to court for misrepresentation, to do anything ableton live like you need to connect it to a computer and it has so many bugs and problems, it should of never been released in it's current state.
Nothing that it was advertised to do worked as it should of out of the box, it has serious midi sync problems making it useless with external hardware.
Ableton is a software company and their lack of hardware production knowledge really shows with the Push 3, it's like they couldn't figure out how to accomplish the same things in standalone hardware so they just copped out and thought connect it to your laptop.
While the simpler synths like drift and meld are alright to program it's still not great and there is a lot of back and forth between pages, the ux with the touch screen on the mpc with jura is way better implemented. More complex synths like operator are a nigntmare and don't have all the fuctionality of their live counterparts.
Any mpc is a way more capable standalone device than push in it's current state, there is 3 different ways to do essential things on the mpc that push hasn't even implemented yet.
On centercode Jesse Terry said that after live 12.05 was released we should start to see lots of major bug fixes and new features, 12.05 was released last week, so lets see but I'm not holding my breath.
It has so much potential to be great but I've nearly lost all hope that ableton will sort it out in a reasonable time frame.

Hey everyone,

I wanted to share my recent experience with the Push 3 standalone, and unfortunately, it hasn't been a positive one. I regret buying it, and I've lost my trust in Ableton as a company. I feel completely let down by the misleading information about the product features.

When I first heard about the Push 3 standalone, I was excited about the possibilities it promised. However, after using it, it's clear that the device does not deliver the standalone features as advertised. It's frustrating to invest in something that doesn't meet the expectations set by the company. Until further updates are released, the Push 3 standalone feels like a failure. I'm done with supporting companies that mislead their customers about product capabilities. I hope Ableton takes these issues seriously and works to address them promptly.

The issues I've faced are echoed by many other users here on the forum:

1. **Limited Functionality**: As Machinesworking pointed out, the Push 3 standalone is very limited compared to its competitors. It's surprising how people defend Ableton by comparing it to Push 2, which always requires a computer. The standalone feature should make it more powerful, but it currently falls short.

2. **Stability Issues**: Rixende mentioned significant stability problems, especially during live performances. The more complex the set, the more likely it is to crash, which is unacceptable for a device marketed for live use. The idea of running custom Max patches is also far from reality due to frequent crashes.

3. **Incomplete Features**: Billpayer's frustration with the lack of comprehensive sidechain input options for the compressor is a critical limitation that stops many from upgrading.

4. **Workflow Limitations**: As funkazoid highlighted, Push 3 standalone might not suit everyone's workflow, especially if you rely on certain sequencing capabilities or complex arrangements.

5. **Support Issues**: The lack of effective support, as mentioned by several users, exacerbates these problems. When firmware updates fail to install and support provides no real solutions, it adds to the frustration.

The list is even longer but I guess this is not a random experience some users have that aimed their expectations too high.

Has anyone else had a similar experience? How are you dealing with the shortcomings? Let's hope Ableton addresses these issues soon, but for now, I'm very disappointed with my purchase so far.

[Overbeck]

Here are my thoughts and exchanges regarding the MIDI issues I have been experiencing since I've purchased the unit 10 months ago.

My request on Knowledge base:
February 23, 2024 02:44
I have connected an Arturia KEYLAB 88 MKII to the Push 3 SA via USB input.
I have a MIDI track with External Instrument loaded and I have connected via TRS MIDI out to a Roland Integra-7 synth. After several hours, there is noticeable delay. It seems like the longer it is turned on the more delay. This is an issue I brought two months ago, request (#2829478). This problem seems to not have been solved.

I will follow up tomorrow when I wake up with a video and device log after leaving the device on overnight.


February 23, 2024 17:58
Hello,
Here is a video link:
https://drive.proton.me/urls/FH1WBAV9S4#hWmwlLLoFhvs

In the video I present the MIDI delay and also after leaving the device on for13 hours where the delay is so long you can't hear anything. After about 2h and 30 minutes whilst working on something else, I heard the first note I played coming out of the speakers.


February 27, 2024 14:30
Hello, I managed to upload this time a second video which clearly shows the delay. The first video via the link I uploaded may not be as clear because in the first part of the video there is little delay as the device was more recently turned on, and then 13 hours later it was so delayed you would have to wait hours to hear the output.

For this video, after leaving the device on for approximately a couple of hours there is, as you can see and hear, clearly a lot of latency. I then proceed to restart the device with the same configuration and the delay is no longer present.

At this point, I am even contemplating maybe my device is faulty - but in reality I am more inclined to believe the fact that it could indicate that the buffer used for storing incoming MIDI messages is filling up or becoming inefficiently managed.


June 20,2024 at 19:22
Any updates on this matter?. I've currently tested it on both MIDI via USB and TRS from an Arturia KEYLAB 88 MKII with Push 2.0.5 Ableton 12 Suite 12.0.5.

It is such a shame this is problem because it is probably the only thing holding me back from performing gigs with the Push 3 SA. Why is this happening? I really want to get to the bottom of this. Is there anything I can do to work towards fixing the problem? I have bit of time on my hands these upcoming weeks.




Rudimental MIDI problems also mentioned here:
https://ableton.centercode.com/project/ ... 6C60721AD7}

I am experiencing all the problems mentioned in this thread to this day. It makes the device absolutely unusable for sequencing external gear and for performing with external MIDI keyboards. Even just having one single MIDI track on an empty project will eventually have massive delay or be unresponsive when receiving MIDI signals from an external MIDI keyboard. Restarting the Push seems to be the only solution, and as we all know the slow boot exacerbates this troublesome issue. Without these rudimental problems sorted out, I don't think the Push 3 standalone can be considered to be a professional tool for live performance.

I am considering selling my Push 3 due to the tremendous amount of time and effort I have spent troubleshooting issues on my own. It is disappointing that the device, advertised as a comprehensive live performance tool with capabilities for sequencing external hardware, has so many problems.

It is surprising that a reputable company like Ableton has struggled with these fundamental issues, especially when a single developer in New Zealand has managed to achieve similar functionality independently.

To answer the thread question: No

[jrjulius]

If anyone is reading this and debating whether to buy, I'll say that Standalone has a complicated value proposition -- as of June 20, 2024, there is simply no way it's competitive as a $2,000 standalone production environment. However, as a $1,000 MPE keyboard, Ableton controller, and audio/MIDI/CV interface with an optional $1,000 standalone mode, it makes a lot more sense. In that context, it's a question of whether Standalone is more valuable to your workflow than, say, a Digitakt or an MPC. I like being able to mess around with MPE Session Drums, Wavetable, Simpler, etc. when I'm away from my computer, then transfer my set directly without manually stemming anything out or re-creating patches. Others may prefer having an alternate workflow, or being able to get a song closer to completion before bringing it back into Live.

Regarding missing features, a lot of them wouldn't have made much sense on the Push 2 since it was always connected to your computer. Case in point: if I had my laptop within arm's reach, there's no way I would use Push for editing arrangements or fine-tuning automation. Same with MIDI mapping, CV Instrument calibration, macro creation, etc. But in Standalone, there are plenty of times where I want to make a quick change and my only option is to save the set, fire up my laptop, transfer it over, make the change, save the set, transfer it back, and reload. For me, the occasional limitation or workflow headache evens out because I really love Ableton's instruments and effects. For others, I can see why they find things like that unacceptable.

There are lots of negative experiences outlined on this forum, which is kind of sad to see. I made my purchase with the mindset of an early adopter, and I'm EXTREMELY happy with the controller and GENERALLY happy with Standalone. It's also worth noting that Ableton support was very responsive when I had issues with my first unit (startup took ~3 minutes instead of ~50 seconds; they identified that it was a hardware issue and promptly sent me a replacement). That isn't meant to discredit anyone that's had disappointing support experiences, but I think it's important to tell the good stories too.

[Pandamonia]

The hardware itself hasn’t lived up to the expectations. I’ve encountered numerous issues with stability and performance. It crashes frequently, and the standalone mode, which was a major selling point for me, feels half-baked and unreliable. The integration with Ableton Live, while good on paper, often feels clunky and inconsistent in practice.

However, what has truly exacerbated my frustration is the level of customer support. Whenever I’ve reached out to Ableton support for help with these issues, the response time has been excruciatingly slow. It often takes days to receive a reply, and when I do, the responses are generic and lack the depth needed to resolve my problems. I expected more from a company of Ableton’s stature and reputation.

This experience has left me questioning my decision to invest in the Push 3 standalone. It’s disheartening to feel like my concerns aren’t being addressed in a timely or effective manner, and it’s impacting my workflow and creativity.

I’m curious to hear if others are facing similar issues with the Push 3 standalone and how you’ve dealt with them. Also, any tips on how to expedite support responses would be greatly appreciated.