Time Signatures

[Buleriachk]

me thinks there is more than one lumbering troll on here. So I will gladly take my leave. No one is arguing against time signatures, you cad.
Anymore than I'd argue that a hammer must have something against screws. Or that my refrigerator must be against toast...
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etc.

Not everyone is cut out for theoretical physics ....

There is good news and bad news.

The good news: The tools of 4/4 music production are fiinally available to the proletriat.
The bad news; The tools of 4/4 music production are fiinally available to the proletriat.

The more fundamental point is that it is not rocket science in 2024 to include time signatures as a matter of course, but if you don't, warn the customer about the gotchas in the marketing hype. Pattern length synced to matrix length is not all that difficult, and most time signatures are covered by 16 x 4 (or even 12 x 4), with pattern length 8 as the default, with each page synced to pattern length.

[Machinesworking]

Ignoring the basics of music because western music mostly uses 4/4 in a product that is not marketed as a toy is just asking for these types of threads, and of course threads like this always get people acting like you personally insulted their religion by mentioning this.

Here's the deal though, Move is not alone, Push 3 standalone pretty much has all the same issues. You can fake it with partial measures, but there isn't any way to have actual measures of 7/4 for example, and no way currently to have different tempos per Scene. Looking at other standalone devices I just do not fully grasp what the advantage of Push 3 Standalone is? I don't get it? 90% of the time at least I hear people talking about creative blocks in music it's not the initial loop you can so easily create with Live etc. etc. it's actually piecing a full song together. I got a good deal on a standalone, but it really is looking like its primary purpose will be in controller mode with Live 12, and MPC Live II will be the standalone device I actually write out songs on. This is disappointing, considering the fantastic synths in Suite the live on P3 SO.

[chapelier fou]

Push 3 is a different story though.
If you edit songs on the computer you can change time sigs for scenes.
So the technology is already there (it's basically Live running), it's only a matter of User Interface that is not (currently) here.
For Move I suspect that the problem is deeper as it's a different software running, and apparently it was conceived from the beginning with 4/4 in mind and relies on "Note" architecture. Hopefully the Abes will find a way to make this more open in the future.

[Machinesworking]

Push 3 is a different story though.
If you edit songs on the computer you can change time sigs for scenes.
So the technology is already there (it's basically Live running), it's only a matter of User Interface that is not (currently) here.

Looks like May 2023 as the introduction of Push 3, it's been a year and 5 months since Push 3 was introduced. I can't recall a single improvement in any of the areas I mentioned in that time. If we were talking 3-4 months from introduction I could see believing something will change, but at near a year and a half I have to go with what Push SO is right now, a sketch pad.

[clay]

Is this a workaround? Looks like you can set number of steps. I don’t have a move so can’t check.
https://youtu.be/MfCVWgGqN98

[chapelier fou]

You can set the number of steps for each clip but not the time signature that rules the global quantization.
So you can’t launch or record with the downbeat at the right place. The quantization is done on the irrelevant background 4/4 clock.

[ascolm]

How do you switch non 4/4 clips in time ?
Even with one single 3/4 clip (12 steps) I can’t retrigger it in time (well it works one time out of four to be accurate).
I’m talking about the Global Quantization, which is hidden, running in 4/4 in the background.
Or did I miss something ?

I'd say this is not even a feature request but a bug. I thought I'd be fine with simply adjusing pattern length but there's just no way to switch between patterns that have extra notes (like 9/8). You have to stop the whole playback and launch again. I understand if different time signatures are not supported but adjustable pattern length was one of the reasons I got move and it barely works

[chapelier fou]

How do you switch non 4/4 clips in time ?
Even with one single 3/4 clip (12 steps) I can’t retrigger it in time (well it works one time out of four to be accurate).
I’m talking about the Global Quantization, which is hidden, running in 4/4 in the background.
Or did I miss something ?

I'd say this is not even a feature request but a bug. I thought I'd be fine with simply adjusing pattern length but there's just no way to switch between patterns that have extra notes (like 9/8). You have to stop the whole playback and launch again. I understand if different time signatures are not supported but adjustable pattern length was one of the reasons I got move and it barely works

I've been discussing a lot with the team about this issue. Trust me, it's not a bug. But I'm confident this will be addressed in the future !
Until then, well, the device remains pointless on the shelf.

[Buleriachk]

Well, I just purchased a Roland P-6, which does have 16 steps and sample import..
And a lot of other things as well. Very easy to import sampls and to edit sequences,
Good Job, Roland, bad job Ableton...

[CH7]

This guy found a clever way to get a quantized 3/4 signature out of the Move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDp73cxIPVM&t=8s

[chapelier fou]

This guy found a clever way to get a quantized 3/4 signature out of the Move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDp73cxIPVM&t=8s

Yeah, well.... I don't want to reach my calculator when jamming
So what's next, they add quintuplets so we can have a new workaround for 5/4 ?

[Buleriachk]

This guy found a clever way to get a quantized 3/4 signature out of the Move.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDp73cxIPVM&t=8s

In Spanish "No vale la pena."
In other words... pure genius .. NOT!

(sigh)

[CH7]

This guy found a clever way to get a quantized 3/4 signature out of the Move.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDp73cxIPVM&t=8s

In Spanish "No vale la pena."
In other words... pure genius .. NOT!

(sigh)

I'm sure the Youtuber would appreciate your feedback.

[Buleriachk]

I fed back to the YouTuber: To (half) wit

3/4 is NOT swing (triplets in duple meter, with the middle note left out). Triple meter (3/4) is 3 quarter notes to the measure. 'Duh!

"The two most common elemts in the Univers are hydrogen and stupidity. By the laws of quantum mechanics there is a small but finite possibility that stupidity may exist at a single place in time and space.

There is good news and bad news.
The good news: The tools of music production are finally available to the proletariat.
The bad news: The tools of music production are finally available to the proletariat.

[Buleriachk]

2/4 meter in triplets is NOT equivalent to 6/8 or 3/4, sine they don't have a common tempo (bpm)

Two beats per minute is not the same as three beats per minute.
8 eightn notes (2/4) per measure is not the same as six eighth notes (6/8) per measure.
Duh!