(ot) (political) letter from Iran to the US

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:24 pm

Keyser Soze wrote:
Spikee wrote: Ahmadinejad is right about Israel created via the armistace in 1947, the eviction of the indigenous people of the land...........................

Ahmadinejad doesn't want genocide, he just wants the land returned to the Muslims since they had been there for almost 2 millenium. A.

Actually, the indigenous people of that land are isreali/jews. The land was originally theirs. The nation of Israel was there before two thousand years ago, so by rights the indigenous people of that land got back what was originally theirs in the first place. Maybe one of the very few examples of history where that happened. I don't know how you think he doesn't want genocide when he categorically said that Israel should be wiped off the map.

What Keyser said...

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:25 pm

rapidix wrote:
M. Bréqs wrote: ... when insane Jihadist freaks start spouting, ...

You don't even know what the fuck this means.

I know exactly what the fuck this means. Do you?

Ahmadinejad squarely fits the bill of:

1. Insane.
2. Jihadist.
3. A freak.
4. One who spouts off.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:34 pm

Keyser Soze wrote: Actually, the indigenous people of that land are isreali/jews. The land was originally theirs. The nation of Israel was there before two thousand years ago, so by rights the indigenous people of that land got back what was originally theirs in the first place. Maybe one of the very few examples of history where that happened. I don't know how you think he doesn't want genocide when he categorically said that Israel should be wiped off the map.

WEAK. it hasnt even been one millenium yet - its not too late for you to fuck off and give the USA back to the indigenous.

and as for israel, it is written in their holy scriptures that they are promised jeruselum - but that they must only go when led by the return of the messiah - the zionist movement is completely blasphemus in this respect. and that is an absolute fact my friend.

I have no time for israeli sympathisers.

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:52 pm

b0unce wrote: and as for israel, it is written in their holy scriptures that they are promised jeruselum - but that they must only go when led by the return of the messiah - the zionist movement is completely blasphemus in this respect. and that is an absolute fact my friend.

I have no time for israeli sympathisers.

How do you know Golda Meir WASN'T the messiah?

[ opens can of worms, backs away ]

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:56 pm

heh, insolent cur.

Heironymous · Post by **Heironymous** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:02 am

Why am I not surprised to see people on this forum agreeing with the insane Ahmadinejad?! Why the abe's permit this "anti-semitic, islamofacist terrorists are my hero" kind of lunacy on their MUSIC SOFTWARE FORUM is beyond me.

Just come clean people, the truth is...you all want to see America go down in flames, the thought of it makes you all excited doesn't it? Good look making electronic music in a radical islamic society.

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:31 am

The way I see it, here's the real estate that the Islamic world holds.

Now, here's the real estate that the Israelis want, so that they can exist in peace and security:

Why can't the rest of the Islamic world make space for the Palestinians?

The vast majority of Israelis were happy with what they had in '47, given to them by the UNITED NATIONS (the same organization that Islamic states always force resolutions through). But they were attacked by Palestinians and Arabs who refused to participate in the original negotiations like petulant children, and in '49, the Israelis consolidated on the ground from which the attackers amassed in order to protect themselves.

Again, they were only days away from being attacked in '67 - that entire year, Egyptians and other Islamic states had been mobilizing tanks and aircraft. Admittedly, the Israelis struck first, but only after it was clear to the entire planet that the Israelis had no choice. Again, they consolidated their ground for SELF PROTECTION.

So, what do the Israelis do? Moshe Dayan, realizing that punishing civilians for the actions of Islamic governments is wrong, invited the Palestinians to stay, so as to avert a humanitarian disaster.

Then, in '82 they gave back the Sinai to Egypt. Today, they're giving back even more.

Granted, today the state of Israel behaves poorly fairly often - The settlement of the captured territories should NEVER have happened. Those territories were captured for military security, and in settling them Israel fucked up big time. A small, Fundamentalist radical element (both in the Knesset and in the society at large) took the land which was militarily justified and by settling on it, removed the justification of military necessity. How could a land that's settled be a "buffer Zone"? It's now settled, it's a no longer a buffer between Israel and the enemy, it just extends Israel's borders into enemy contact again. Ridiculous. But, at least they're starting to correct their mistakes - more than can be said for Fatah, Hamas, Hizbollah, or any other jihadist bastards and/or anti-semites out there.

Ask a Jordinian or an Egyptian official why they don't let Palestinians resettle in their countries, when they've been there for years. It's because the Palestinians' worst enemy are the Islamic states around them. They play the Palestinians for fools and use them as tools to divert attention from the shitty conditions of their own countries.

Look at the maps above - all Israel wants is a TINY place to live in peace, in the vastness of an otherwise Islamic region.

By the way, I'm not jewish. I'm just an historian.

Keyser Soze · Post by **Keyser Soze** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:33 am

b0unce wrote:
WEAK. it hasnt even been one millenium yet - its not too late for you to fuck off and give the USA back to the indigenous.

I have no time for israeli sympathisers.

First of all I am not American or even live there! Secondly, your arguments fall short when you start abusing people to get a point across. We obviously have different opinions, let's argue them out in a civil way. Why are you so anti-Israel? The land was theirs to begin with.

What M.Breqs says:

M. Bréqs wrote:
How do you know Golda Meir WASN'T the messiah?

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:42 am

Keyser Soze wrote:I was also told that even music is not allowed unless it praises allah, all other music is banned

All music is banned according to one hadith (a story about or a saying or proverb ascribed to the prophet Mohammed) whether it praises God or not. Needless to say, though, music is tolerated by most muslims, there's several musical traditions that are purely Islamic in nature. If you haven't heard qawwali (Pakistani) or gnawa (moroccan/algerian) you owe yourself to check it.

You also use the phrase 'real islam'. Don't. Would you ever use the phrase 'real christianity'? There's a million and three variations of all religions. The Dalai Lama and the Aum Shinrikyo movement (who were behind the mid-nineties nerve gas attack on the Tokyo subway system) refer to the same collection of Buddhist scriptures, the Pali canon but they can hardly be said to share a faith.

Actually, the indigenous people of that land are isreali/jews. The land was originally theirs. The nation of Israel was there before two thousand years ago, so by rights the indigenous people of that land got back what was originally theirs in the first place. Maybe one of the very few examples of history where that happened. I don't know how you think he doesn't want genocide when he categorically said that Israel should be wiped off the map.

It's a bit of a stretch to say that all the jews that have been moving 'back' to Palestine since the Zionist movement was conceived in Vienna in the 1800's belong to an ethnic group that was exiled at a certain time. It is, however, not a stretch to say that the Arab Palestinians who are now either repressed in the land their forefathers have been cultivating for 10+ generations or living in refugee camps in other parts of the Middle East have been forced out. By your logic 2/3 of the people of England should move back to India via Scandinavia and France... or something. There's an intrinsic difference between something that happened when my grand mother was in her 30's and what happened before the letter j was invented.

(roughly 3AM local time, roughly half a bottle of whiskey drunk)

edit - Breqs & his maps: Well, yes. I suppose. But... you know... The Catholics own half the globe, me and my 100 fellow believers just want those 500 square metres in the centre of Rome back. Surely they'll live?

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:44 am

its a humanitarian issue....jesus christ! (pbuh)

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:49 am

b0unce wrote:jesus christ! (pbuh)

You remember that film The Rock? Where Nick Cage tells Sean Connery about how the gas in those rockets will make you spasm so much you break your own spine all while your skin melts (or something) and Sean Connery says 'Good God!' and Nick says 'I believe we'd like God on our side right now...' (or words to that effect). I always quite liked that.

Dunno why I just thought of that.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:49 am

Heironymous wrote:I am a wanker with no eyes and no brain!!!!!111!11oneoneone

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Thu May 11, 2006 1:01 am

noisetonepause wrote:
edit - Breqs & his maps: Well, yes. I suppose. But... you know... The Catholics own half the globe, me and my 100 fellow believers just want those 500 square metres in the centre of Rome back. Surely they'll live?

You've made a bad analogy. Rome is the centre of faith for only one major religion in existance today. In historic terms, Jerusalem is a centre for three faiths.

A better analogy would have been to say... Hm, wait. There is no other city on the globe in Jerusalem's situation.

Historically, it was Jewish first. But even for the Muslims, it's not THAT holy - certainly not as much as Mecca or Medina.

I say, let Israelis continue to live in Jerusalem, and let the world of Islam have:

1. Mecca, the holiest city in Islam. Location of the Ka'aba - the basis of the Qibla (direction of prayer), focus of the Hajj.
2. Medina, the second holiest city in Islam, site of Masjid al-Nabawi, where the final prophet of Islam, Muhammad, is buried. Where early Mulsims Muhajirun emigrated to following the Hijra.
3. Najaf, site of the tomb of Imam Ali in Imam Ali Mosque, who the Shi'a consider to be their founder. Also site of Wadi-us-Salaam cemetery. (Shia)
4. Mazar E Sharif, another shrine of the Imam Ali, while the majority of Muslims believe Ali was buired in Najaf, a significant minority believe he is in Mazar E Sharif, in Afghanistan. (Shia)
5. Karbala, tomb of Husayn bin Ali in the Mashad al-Husain (Shia)
6. Mashhad, site of burial of Imam Reza (Shia)
7. Qom, site of the shrine of Fatima Masoumeh, sister of Imam Reza. Also site of Jamkaran mosque. (Shia)
8. Samarra, tombs of Ali al Hadi and Hasan al Askari, and mosque where Imam Mahdi went into occultation. (Shia)
9. Ajmer, India, site of the shrine and tomb of Moinuddin Chishti. (Sufi)
10. Türkistan, Kazakhstan, site of the mausoleum of 12th century Sufi Hodja Ahmed Yassawi. Known as the Second Mecca of the East in mediaeval times. In Kazakhstan, three pilgrimages here seen as equivalent to one Hajj. (Sufi)
11. Konya, Turkey, site of the tomb of Mawlana Jalal al-Din Muhammad Rumi, a 13th century master of tasawuff. (Sufi)
12. Delhi, shrine of Hazrat Nizamuddin Auliya. (Sufi)
13. Mount Abu, site of the Dilwara Temples (Jainism)
14. Shravanabelagola (Jainism)
15. Palitana, also known as Shetrunjay (Jainism)
16. Sammed Shikarji Hills - The Hills where 20 of the 24Tithankaras attained Nirvana. (Jainism)

Even then, Islam has a number of non-religious but historic places:

1. Baghdad, where the Caliphate at its height ruled from.
2. Damascus, seat of Umayyad rule.
3. Samarkand, especially significant for Eastern Muslims, capital of Timurs kingdom.
4. Timbuktu, especially significant for African Muslims, Capital of the Empire of Mali, and centre of African Islamic learning.

All the Israelis want is to SHARE Jerusalem. Only a few of the worst idiots in the Knesset advocate kicking muslims out of Jersulam. I mean, look at a picture of the skyline of Jerusalem. Notice anything mosque-like there? That's the DOME OF THE ROCK, and it's occupied and controlled by muslims. I think that letting Israel hold Jersulam is reasonable, they've been VERY tolerant of Islam there.

Your Rome analogy certainly doesn't match. You're drowning us in hyperbole.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Thu May 11, 2006 1:12 am

I'm not drowning you in hyperbole so much as I'm drowning in whiskey (well, trying to. It is a wednesday after all). I'll step out of my usual online persona for a few sentences and say that the muslims can scream and yell all they like, if Ashoka conquered it or it has been called 'India' for so much as five minutes of history, they're the ones who have to submit. My team is, after all, objectively right.

Keyser Soze · Post by **Keyser Soze** » Thu May 11, 2006 1:53 am

noisetonepause wrote: All music is banned according to one hadith (a story about or a saying or proverb ascribed to the prophet Mohammed) whether it praises God or not. Needless to say, though, music is tolerated by most muslims, there's several musical traditions that are purely Islamic in nature. If you haven't heard qawwali (Pakistani) or gnawa (moroccan/algerian) you owe yourself to check it.

Until right now, I didn't know what a hadith is. I just looked it up in wikipedia. Anyway the keys words are:

"Important tools for determining muslim way of life, what mohammed said and did".

It just takes one bad apple. Even if it is only one hadith, it is stated. A long time ago I used to be a teacher. I remember one occassion where I got the class to sing a song. There was a muslim kid in the class who refused to take part. I asked him why. He told me that his father said that it was forbidden to sing. I thought how sad!! The majority of muslims might tolerate music, but using the word TOLERATE has negative implications. It suggests to "put up with". If the taliban had it their way, well you know......which brings me onto the next point:

noisetonepause wrote:
You also use the phrase 'real islam'. Don't. Would you ever use the phrase 'real christianity'? There's a million and three variations of all religions. The Dalai Lama and the Aum Shinrikyo movement (who were behind the mid-nineties nerve gas attack on the Tokyo subway system) refer to the same collection of Buddhist scriptures, the Pali canon but they can hardly be said to share a faith.

What I guess I am trying to say by "real islam" is what I believe to be the version that moderate and peaceful muslims think. I myself would use the term "real Christianity" because Christianity has also been misinterpreted (and if misinterpreted is the wrong word, then interpretations without any real grounds), though I should state I am not a religious person but have read quite a bit about it. My wife though is a very religious woman and has explained to me a lot. She is a very level headed and what I deem to be a very reliable source, but that is besides the point. But you are suggesting that all interpretations of any faith are valid variations. That implies then that the radical/fundamentalist view is an acceptable view aswell, which then brings us back to point that singing and dancing is not allowed, women can be treated like shit and that it is ok to kill the infidel.

noisetonepause wrote:
It's a bit of a stretch to say that all the jews that have been moving 'back' to Palestine since the Zionist movement was conceived in Vienna in the 1800's belong to an ethnic group that was exiled at a certain time. It is, however, not a stretch to say that the Arab Palestinians who are now either repressed in the land their forefathers have been cultivating for 10+ generations or living in refugee camps in other parts of the Middle East have been forced out. By your logic 2/3 of the people of England should move back to India via Scandinavia and France... or something. There's an intrinsic difference between something that happened when my grand mother was in her 30's and what happened before the letter j was invented.

Well, everything that M.Bréqs has said with regard to the map and history of Israel. He seems to be rather knowledgable on the subject.