OT - Germans Push Europe on Holocaust

info_warfare · Post by **info_warfare** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:09 pm

shtreimel wrote:Richard Dawkins...ah, finally the athiests have an extremist all to their own.

Me? The synagogue I pray at, being that it's near many hospitals, is populated with a healthy dose of neuro-chemists and doctors...all Orthodox Jews, all very well versed in science. However they take a much more nuanced approach than Dawkins and Christian/Muslim/Jewish Fundamentalists. And I don't see much of a difference between any of 'em.

Well the reason Dawkins has become an extremist atheist is because of the dangerous atmosphere and fanaticism in Christianity he found when he came over here to America. I mean seriously, to have the leader of what's supposed to be one of the most modern countries believe in the Bible as LITERAL and to now have some public schools teach this as fact over actual scientific evidence is a pretty scary thing and no one seems to be doing anything about it, hence, the entrance of Dawkins. And he is actually not that extreme if you read his book. It's all based on rational and reasonable thought, everything is backed up by facts, the only thing he is [extreme] saying is that you can't really be a fence sitter (agnostic) in today's world. You gotta choose sides because the side of blind faith is not only winning, it is tearing the ENTIRE world apart!

Meef Chaloin · Post by **Meef Chaloin** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:54 pm

this is quite entertaining, http://www.alluc.org/alluc/tv-shows.htm ... y_uid=2225
he pisses all over fundamentalists of many faiths, i particularly like the american preacher, what a lovely man. Wasnt he recently caught shagging boys & doing coke or something?

Meef Chaloin · Post by **Meef Chaloin** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:55 pm

anyway great diversion by the usual suspects

shtreimel · Post by **shtreimel** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:01 pm

info_warfare wrote: it is tearing the ENTIRE world apart!

Curious though. If you believe in God, then much of what we accept as "normal" in today's society is doing far more damage than anything the Christian Right is preaching. Take homosexuality...how is it possible that God Fearing Conservative Goverments (Canada and the US) would allow gay pride parades that include simulated acts of felatio and anal sex in the middle of the afternoon. I mean, God's punishment for anal sex is death by stoning. Why would any God fearing govt allow such blatant heresey.

We're living in postmodern era where almost anything goes so long as you don't maim or kill someone. Can we get more lenient?

And last I recall, most wars/deaths have been caused by secular govts:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:07 pm

I find Dawkins' ideas about religion about as interesting as Desmond Tutu's ideas about chemistry.

info_warfare · Post by **info_warfare** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:57 am

shtreimel wrote:
info_warfare wrote: it is tearing the ENTIRE world apart!
Curious though. If you believe in God, then much of what we accept as "normal" in today's society is doing far more damage than anything the Christian Right is preaching. Take homosexuality...how is it possible that God Fearing Conservative Goverments (Canada and the US) would allow gay pride parades that include simulated acts of felatio and anal sex in the middle of the afternoon. I mean, God's punishment for anal sex is death by stoning. Why would any God fearing govt allow such blatant heresey.

We're living in postmodern era where almost anything goes so long as you don't maim or kill someone. Can we get more lenient?

Bullshit! What are you talking about? They DON'T tolorate it but they DO have a hard time stopping it in major cities like Los Angeles, New York and San Francisco. But in many of the southern bible-belt states it is STILL illegal to have sodomy or oral sex (even if you are straight and married!) and in Alabama I believe it's illegal to have interacial marriage! In the 21st Century! All because of these Bible thumping politicians! And now it's getting worse... and that's my whole point, another year of Bush (shit, we have TWO more years) and NONE of us will be able to even think about sex. The religious right censors so many moveis based on sex, but killing and violence is all fine and dandy (as it was in the bible). Completely opposite of how Europe is where sex is actually a natural beautiful thing and violence is bad.

So no, they don't allow it anywhere in america, they just can't stop it everywhere, And as of these past several years, we have been going backwards as I have already mentioned numerous times thanks to our currrent government's believe in the bible which is why you now have many public schools in Texas, Kansas and even California teaching Creationism over Evolution as fact! Fuck I hate repeating myself people, stop being so blind and stupid!!!!

info_warfare · Post by **info_warfare** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:58 am

shtreimel wrote:
And last I recall, most wars/deaths have been caused by secular govts:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html

And I call bullshit on that as well. Pretty bias if you ask any rational thinking person...

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:32 pm

info_warfare wrote:
shtreimel wrote:
And last I recall, most wars/deaths have been caused by secular govts:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
And I call bullshit on that as well. Pretty bias if you ask any rational thinking person...

I'd say it's pretty obvious that it is true, but the choice of source is unfortunate.

shtreimel · Post by **shtreimel** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:35 pm

info_warfare wrote:
shtreimel wrote:
And last I recall, most wars/deaths have been caused by secular govts:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
And I call bullshit on that as well. Pretty bias if you ask any rational thinking person...

For a Richard Dawkins fan your "rational" approach to debunking a fact is very, well, faith based. It's fact my friend, and athiests have a hard time stomaching it. Anyway, I have nothing against athiesm. Just don't seem like the kinda folk I'd enjoy having a coffee with

andydes · Post by **andydes** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:47 pm

shtreimel wrote:
info_warfare wrote: it is tearing the ENTIRE world apart!
Curious though. If you believe in God, then much of what we accept as "normal" in today's society is doing far more damage than anything the Christian Right is preaching. Take homosexuality...how is it possible that God Fearing Conservative Goverments (Canada and the US) would allow gay pride parades that include simulated acts of felatio and anal sex in the middle of the afternoon. I mean, God's punishment for anal sex is death by stoning. Why would any God fearing govt allow such blatant heresey.

Well, at least you didn’t say that Aids was God’s punishment for anal sex. But really, how much damage is homosexuality doing to the world?

Not sure extremist atheist is the right term for dawkins. Very vocal and a bit intolerant, maybe, but it’s not as if he takes the origin of the species more literally than anyone else. He’s a man of science, and it doesn’t work like that.

On a lighter note, check out the difference between user reviews of the bible on US and UK Amazon website. Classic.

US:

http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Bible-Englis ... ER&s=books

UK:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Holy-Bible/dp/0840700555

Unfortunately, it looks like Amazon have removed some of my favourites. Some people are far too sensitive.

muscleandhate · Post by **muscleandhate** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:07 pm

Dawkins has become a parady of what he so vocally opposes. Ultimatey, religion is nothing more than a set of ideas, a worldview. Peoples freedom to believe what they want should be protected, I believe. I should have the right of disbelief as much as the next person should be tolerated to believe in whatever they choose. I accept the need for religion but oppose fundamentalism, whether Islamic, Christian or US foreign policy.

As for religion itself, perhaps if people around the world actually practised their faith insted of using it as a pretext for war, the world might be a generally more fairer place to inhabit. In any case, the common argument of no religion equals no war is absolutely false. I believe that we live in a world domianted by the material aspects, from which we form ideas. Life has always been determined by this because we need to satisfy our physical needs. What we are witnessing in the world at the moment is fighting over economic base, not absract religious ideas (although they are the pretext).

Religion is engenders a sense of legitmacy, for the rich and for the poor. But it all comes down to the material requirements of life. I don't think the arabs are pissed off at the fact there are practicing Christians in the US, or that the Western consumerist lifestyle is fundamentally opposed to their religious values and rituals (actually, it is equally contridictory to Christian faith but that's another topic). Rather, I think they are vexed at the fact the West are interfering in their 'holy' lands, stealing their oil and trying to export our economic means of producton to their part of the world.

mocker · Post by **mocker** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:34 pm

I give up, some of you guys are totally fucked up and racist, using the old nazi propanganda without even knowing it. Pitiful..
And the guy (I don't even want know his name) who jumped on my Godard's quote about TV being "5 minutes for the Jews, 5 minutes for Hitler". Stupid idiot you didn't even got the meaning of it. I won't explain, trigger your stupid automatic patterns on your lousy synth in Live while suffering because the Jews "control all the media". Poor schmuck.

andydes · Post by **andydes** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:25 pm

shtreimel wrote:
Anyway, I have nothing against athiesm. Just don't seem like the kinda folk I'd enjoy having a coffee with

Oh, why’s that? So you wouldn’t fancy having a drink and a chat with me about, say: music, ableton techniques, girls, an interesting film on the TV the other night, etc. because my beliefs aren’t compatible with yours. Do I detect the faintest glimmer of religious intolerance here?

mocker wrote: I give up, some of you guys are totally fucked up and racist, using the old nazi propanganda without even knowing it. Pitiful..

Not sure who that’s aimed at. Don’t fancy pointing the finger? It’s a bit of vague accusation. I hope someone would tell me if I’ve come across as a nazi anywhere.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:02 pm

mocker wrote:I give up, some of you guys are totally fucked up and racist, using the old nazi propanganda without even knowing it. Pitiful..
And the guy (I don't even want know his name) who jumped on my Godard's quote about TV being "5 minutes for the Jews, 5 minutes for Hitler". Stupid idiot you didn't even got the meaning of it. I won't explain, trigger your stupid automatic patterns on your lousy synth in Live while suffering because the Jews "control all the media". Poor schmuck.

The life of the party here

Voted most likely to live with a stick up his ass

...FOREVER!!!

It's not a mystery, Jews can't play basketball - yet they own the courts - which means they are still involved in the NBA...which Tone Deft so eloquently pointed out to me - for that I thank him - see I'm going to a basketball game Friday and if I see Howard, I'll be like "Hey Howard, way to take one for the team Jew boy!!!"

peace

a

*Oh, and you spelled propaganda wrong Mockster.

info_warfare · Post by **info_warfare** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:49 pm

shtreimel wrote:
info_warfare wrote:
shtreimel wrote:
And last I recall, most wars/deaths have been caused by secular govts:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html
And I call bullshit on that as well. Pretty bias if you ask any rational thinking person...
For a Richard Dawkins fan your "rational" approach to debunking a fact is very, well, faith based. It's fact my friend, and athiests have a hard time stomaching it. Anyway, I have nothing against athiesm. Just don't seem like the kinda folk I'd enjoy having a coffee with

No not fact and let's look at this properly and I'll explain why I called bullshit (not that you will actually read this in it's proper context which is why I keep having to repeat myself with the same thing, but, here I go again.)

First, let's define EXACTLY what an Atheist is. Atheist is the NON belief of anything supernatural such as fairytales, Santa Claus, Easter Bunny or God(s). Period.

Christians love to bring up the whole "Atheists killed more people/ look at Hitler" argument. Hitler was NOT an Atheist. Not only was he raised Catholic and professed to be Christian, he NEVER denied the existance of God and in fact was one of the MOST superstious people around (evident with his experiments in the occult, which, by the way, Atheists do not believe in!)

But for [your] arguments sake, let's pretend Hitler was an Atheist. He did not do what he did because of that, he did it because he was a Fascist! He did it for nationalism, he did it over race. It had NOTHING to do with Atheisism. The fact that he happened to be (in your estimation) an Atheist had nothing to do with it. Why? Well, he was also an artist and a vegitarian. Does that mean all Artists and vegitarians are evil murders? I think most Buddhists would strongly disagree with you. But that's exactly the sort of weak propaganda that publications like the Christian Science Monitor like to spread.

More dangerous is what they said here:

Using the latest techniques of science and technology, man seeks to displace God and create a secular utopia here on earth. Of course if some people - the Jews, the landowners, the unfit, or the handicapped - have to be eliminated in order to achieve this utopia, this is a price the atheist tyrants and their apologists have shown themselves quite willing to pay.

WHAT!?!? Where the fuck do they get that!? Oh yeah, from their Atheist Hitler straw man. But most Athiests like Dawkins and other scientests who are rational thinking people are actually doing everything they can to HELP the unfit, the handicap, etc. by constantly using science and research to find cures for disease (like Aids) while the fascist hate-mongering Christians do nothing more than ridicule and condemn people with claims that God gave Aids to the world to show that homsexuality is bad! Yes, that is a FACT. And that is why I called Bullshit on your article.

Again the majority of wars through out history including current wars (with the exception of WW2 as that was truely a different and devasting war all around for all sides) are mostly fought in the name of religion, more importantly, your current reilgious leaders who condemn anyone that is not of their faith and who impose their beliefs and moral values on us by throwing out scientific fact in favor of blind faith are actually more dangerous than any war; they also happen to be hypocrits and again I cite from the past Jim Baker, Jimmy Swagart currently Ted Haggard, the child molesting Catholic Priests, and on and on and on. This is something that can NOT be denied, it is happening now and you are a complete blind fool. Period.

In conclusion, Atheists do not want to make people NOT believe in what they want to believe in, they want you to not impose your beliefs on others and then condemn then when they are not of your belief. More importantly, regardless of your spirituality, Atheists believe (and have hope) in Humanity that they are smart enough to use rational thought to help solve the worlds problems. If you were to reference my post about Any Rand's book "For The New Intellectual" you will see how rational thought and science has done more to progress this world more than any politician. And religion has done more to stunt the growth of the world and turn back the clock towards more dark and primitive times than ANYONE including Hitler. This, my friend, is a fact that is hard to swallow for mindless sheep called Christians.

Just to give a bit of insight to myself, I am a life long Atheist as was my father. To this day (and I am in my late 30s) I have never had a drop of alchohol, never had any drugs ever and have never once touched a cigarette. I have fairly high morals (again, much more than most of your religious leaders) always donating to charity and helping those that are in need whenever I can and I have done this without the superstition of religion.