Ableton or Renoise?

SuicidexCult · Post by **SuicidexCult** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:24 am

steve-o wrote:you can do some very glitchy stuff with GURU.

ive been playing the dblue one for about an hour. its not teaching me so much how to program the glitches but it sure is fun (im sure i can record what i am doing tho, its kinda like cheating)
i went to that site, only see guru for mac and i use pc

blank · Post by **blank** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:31 am

Guru is from fxpansion, windows and mac.

You can make glitches and noises from nearly everything that produce a sound.

Just dig

:)

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:19 am

renoise looks amazing

blank · Post by **blank** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:28 am

sweetjesus wrote:renoise looks amazing

Renoise is amazing, I hope they will go rewire soon, it will be easyful to use it with live.

It takes one hour to get yourself to understand it, with the tutorial its not that hard.

solid piece of software

friend_kami · Post by **friend_kami** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:50 pm

renoise is just a tracker, advanced some might say, but still just a tracker.
if you dont want trackers, dont get renoise.

you can get glitches any way you like it, its not about the soft its about how you use it. i can tell one thing though:

no other software will have you experimenting getting lost in an 8hour jam session with you and your friends within 5 minutes of set up. thats live for ya.
you want glitches? make a glitch rack.
you want random drums? make a drumrack controlled with some midi effects and whatnots, with live the only limit is your imagination, really.

i do, however love trackers.
for those that havent seen this (speaking ab out tracker) nashnet got ReViSiT which is a tracker for vst hosts.

bling bling:
http://www.nashnet.co.uk/english/revisit/

Stiff · Post by **Stiff** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:03 pm

I gotta tell ya, stick with Live. I know ReNoise, haven't used it much and am still waiting for that cold dark night when I'll really dig into it. It's what's called a tracker as some already have mentioned.

I might open up a can of worms here, but trackers are dead. Yeah, yeah, some people still use them and I applaud that, but it is dead. Trackers have a special place in my heart because it's with them I started making music. The heydays were on the Amiga and IMO trackers are for nostalgic people. I know one can make good music on them and they can be quick to work with but IMO for new people coming in the other DAWs out there are better and easier to learn. Live is a great choice for loop based music.

SuicidexCult · Post by **SuicidexCult** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:08 pm

Stiff wrote:I gotta tell ya, stick with Live. I know ReNoise, haven't used it much and am still waiting for that cold dark night when I'll really dig into it. It's what's called a tracker as some already have mentioned.

I might open up a can of worms here, but trackers are dead. Yeah, yeah, some people still use them and I applaud that, but it is dead. Trackers have a special place in my heart because it's with them I started making music. The heydays were on the Amiga and IMO trackers are for nostalgic people. I know one can make good music on them and they can be quick to work with but IMO for new people coming in the other DAWs out there are better and easier to learn. Live is a great choice for loop based music.

yeah, I played with some random trackers in like 95 and was suprised to see that so many people I listen to use them. But then I see vids like the one with telefon tel aviv and realize that I can make the same glitch stuff with ableton really and its not inputting 0940 forever, it seems (from the video) cutting and pasting and so on...now the hard part, figuring out how to do it..heh

the ar · Post by **the ar** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:25 pm

Trackers are just another instrument, another tool.
Saying they are dead is rather superficial, from my point of view.
Are old reel to reel tape recorders dead?
Some might say so, but many people/studios still use them.
Nothing is 'dead', it just depends whether they suit your workflow and if they deliver what you want them to.

SuicidexCult · Post by **SuicidexCult** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:44 pm

the ar wrote:Trackers are just another instrument, another tool.
Saying they are dead is rather superficial, from my point of view.
Are old reel to reel tape recorders dead?
Some might say so, but many people/studios still use them.
Nothing is 'dead', it just depends whether they suit your workflow and if they deliver what you want them to.

Ive been busy right now learning and practicing between renoise and ableton. they are both very different yet similar. The biggest issue I have, the hill to get over right now is that in both I know how to input notes, create a beat, pretty straight forward easy stuff. Problem is it all sounds so bad and plain, my mind hears a glitch here, rewind there, stretch and so on...now I need to figure out how to do it. Is there a good video tutorial on how to do this? the guy from telefon tel aviv shows it a little in that one video but does not explain how to do it! makes it look sooo easy, copy and pasting etc...

Stiff · Post by **Stiff** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:09 pm

the ar wrote: Are old reel to reel tape recorders dead?

A whole other animal my man... Tape recorders are still considered standards in high-end studios, trackers are not

friend_kami · Post by **friend_kami** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:28 pm

well you could do it copy and paste style, you could manipulate your beat with clip envelopes, could use dummy clips and vst effects, the possibilities with live is endless. ableton live is mindboggling in that sense that while other DAW´s usually offers one or possibly two ways do to something, live offers a million ways to do the same thing, its just a matter of taste imo.

copying and pasting is pretty straight forward aswell as a pretty fast way to work with live in arrangement view. when doing it live with different clips and loops and whatnots id recommend that you spend some time and make a rack or two and get used to working with them so that you know exactly what every parametre (spelling?) does, aswell as how to fine tune it to that particular special way youd want just right now.

hell half the time i spend using live im not actually making any music, just creating new racks and finding out new ways to manipulate signals.
fun fun!

whiterabbit · Post by **whiterabbit** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:09 am

blank wrote:Guru is from fxpansion, windows and mac.

You can make glitches and noises from nearly everything that produce a sound.

I owe GURU and it's one of my favoriate audio soft tools, but I think it really needs a full sound synthesis module, like Apple Logic or that Korg Electribe er1 mkii and it's analog synthesis sibling (ea-1):
http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?a_prod_no=ermkii
http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?a_pro ... egory_id=2

Listen to the samples. I really like how they so seamlesslly morph across such a wide palette of tonality.

GURU is fantastic for what it does, but what I'm really craving is more ability to transform the "pads" dynamically, instead of just triggering them.

You have limited ability to do that with some graphs (scrub, pitch, etc) and you can twiddle fx knobs and stuff, but with some quality sound synthesis capabilities and improved fx dsp it could really be smash hit.

whiterabbit · Post by **whiterabbit** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:52 am

SuicidexCult wrote:
the ar wrote:Trackers are just another instrument, another tool.
Saying they are dead is rather superficial, from my point of view.
Are old reel to reel tape recorders dead?
Some might say so, but many people/studios still use them.
Nothing is 'dead', it just depends whether they suit your workflow and if they deliver what you want them to.

Ive been busy right now learning and practicing between renoise and ableton. they are both very different yet similar. The biggest issue I have, the hill to get over right now is that in both I know how to input notes, create a beat, pretty straight forward easy stuff. Problem is it all sounds so bad and plain, my mind hears a glitch here, rewind there, stretch and so on...now I need to figure out how to do it. Is there a good video tutorial on how to do this? the guy from telefon tel aviv shows it a little in that one video but does not explain how to do it! makes it look sooo easy, copy and pasting etc...

In my opinion no amount of BeatRepeaters, BestScramblers, Glitch, or Shuffle effects can replace a solid understanding of rhythm. The tracks on the Venetian Snares "Higgins Ultra Low Track Glue Funk Hits 1972 - 2006" album are anything but 'random'. They have purpose and direction. They are musically meaningful. They are full of tension, build-ups, release, complexity, structure and playfulness... I'm also struggling to create those types of rhythmic structures and I too am experimenting with Renoise because, as you probably know, it has some capabilities that some people here might not fully appreciate.

My recommendation is learn to play the drums--if you don't already know how. I started about a month ago, and I go once a week for 30 minutes but practice in the school's rental room.

Already it's paying off. I'm just learning basic 8 beat patterns and fills so far, but lots of lights are turning on in my mind. My teacher is very excellent, and I get to play on a $5,600 top-of-the-line Roland V-Drum kit (sweet)!

I've been playing along with this Cevin Key track on Fixer called Uhm. The drumming isn't too complex, but you REALLY get intimate with the structure of a piece of music when you play along with it.

Feel free to drop me a line, maybe we can learn together. I'm intent on becoming a solid percussionist. I want my rhythms to be musically meaningful. It's very easy to just use BeatRepeat, sample offset envelopes, and Glitch VST so you end up sounding exactly like everyone else when you do that...

Stiff · Post by **Stiff** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:52 pm

Funny this thread jumped up right now. The cold dark night I described has indeed come, I've sat down and made some music with Renoise and it is indeed capable of a whole lot of stuff. I would still suggest using Live though... But Renoise is cool, I in fact know a guy who lives of his music using ONLY trackers. Very cool IMO.

Sorry for going a bit OT.