A Very Un-Inspiring set Seen on mpc/ turntables

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:57 pm

chrysalis33rpm wrote: But, Bread, one person who really didn't contribute much of anything to the discussion, until your last couple sentences (which were on point), was you.

I'm still a little concerned now that it has been revealed that lm is a knucklebutt.

thanks for noticing my last couple of sentences, i'm a little slow but I get there eventualy.

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:04 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:very funny, if your idea of musical performance is tweaking filter cutoff and resonance you're already beyond help. You better get some sort of show to distract the dummies.

ribbon controllers? we already have those, and about a million other things you can use. Does it matter what it looks like? It could be the coolest controller in the world and it won't do shit for you if it isn't set up in a way that you can elegantly perform with it. Of course when i say perform, i mean make music.

You can fool an idiot into thinking you're great by controlling a filter cutoff with a light beam controller, but it takes a little bit more than that to touch a more intelligent audience.

.lm.

my post about ribbon controllers, midi controllers in general and innovative ergonomics has nothing to do with your perception of what I was talking about, you are doing the same thing in your above statement regarding what i'm putting forth about midi controllers that you did about OPs post about 'performance', the pattern in your responses is evident. you're just wasting both of our time.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:13 pm

scared you might learn something from me if you open your mind a little?

i've been playing live electronic music for more than a decade, y'know.

.lm.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:16 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:scared you might learn something from me if you open your mind a little?

i've been playing live electronic music for more than a decade, y'know.

.lm.

didn't you also teach that shit, knucklebutt?

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:43 pm

eat that shit, sleep that shit, drink that shit too.

my 3rd performance of the month is this Saturday:

http://www.thedanger.com/

last weekend:

http://www.finediving.org/

Don't get the wrong idea:
i don't really think i'm anything all that special. I'm just a guy who loves electronic music and has been involved in it for a pretty long time.

.lm.

studiesinsound · Post by **studiesinsound** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:59 pm

I'll start out by saying I haven't read this whole pissing contest. I'm not here to argue with any of the points put forth here but just add something I've been thinking about a lot regarding his topic:

No one goes to a museum to see a great painter paint.
They go for the finished work of art.
Sure everynow and again I'll watch the PBS shows on so and so and their artistic process. But really, who goes to a museum, stands in front of a gret painting and says
"Well shit, this looks nice but I'm simply not entertained! I need to see a dude in overalls splattering paint everywhere, cursin' up a storm, drinking and carrying on to get the full effect of this peice. I should have just stayed at home and looked at the print I have of this my living room wall."

But music is inherently different than a painting or any other static work of art.
You can walk in to a museum and look at a painting and take the whole thing in at a glance and move on, or hone in on one detail and stare at that 1 little part of the thing for hours if you want.

Musicians hold their audience captive. If you want to take in a whole piece of music, as an audience member you can't speed it up. The rate at which you as a listener experience the music is dictated to you by the performing monkey....i mean musician.
And maybe that's part of the unwritten deal. When you pay to get into a venue and forgo your ability to speed up or slow down the rate at which you experience what's being thrown at you, maybe on a certain level you say, well alright, If I am to give up certain rights to how I want this experience to go I will place more weight on other aspects of the performance. I'll listen to your shit at the rate and volume you dictate but damnit I need to be entertained or there will be a fucking revolt.

I'm not passing judgement on that dynamic but maybe for most people it exists that way.

For what it's worth I don't consider myself a performing artist. I have played very few live shows and while I found the experience rewarding on a certain level, it's not my main drive.
My relationship with the music is between me and the music. I'm not here to entertain anyone. That kind of isolationism and complete disregard for any audience is a double edged sword.
I make the music I want. But I acknowledge I am no fun to watch.
A rabid student of Bruce Lee and the great martial arts masters I believe in efficient movement. As a drummer that is necessary, as a guitarist not so much so. I can play some crazy ass shit on the guitar but no pete townsend windmills here.
Just a dude sitting in a chair hunched over a tele and moving his fingers.

As a society we like to watch the act of effortmaking.
Whether 90 percent of the shown effort is wasted energy that servers no practical purpose other than to look flashy.
We love fast guitar solos that have nothing to do with teh context of the song and add nothing artistically.
We love fast drum breaks and extended drum solos that don't keep the beat, and serve only to show how technical the drummer is.
We lk eto see ther people break a sweat doing something they could damn well make look easy.

But I see it as a reflection of our ever more glutunous society. In every aspect of life we want more for less.
This includes art. We need to see good art but the people making also need to entertain us. We are multitasking our creative experience.
So in a way flashy performances are valid art, as they reflect the state of our current society and the need for constant intake, constant consumption, and constant multitasking.

So in the words of another artist (great musician and flashy performer....Frank Zappa)
"Shut up and Play Yer Guitar!"

-StudiesInSound

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:02 am

I'm all for learning from you and learning in general, what else is life about really? but..... when somebody starts a thread about the visual aspects of performing which is by all means (not your concern) as you've made it clear
it really puts all of those post of yours in a supicious light. there are other people on the forum with threads about things that don't intrest me as well, but i'm not going into their threads trying to make them seem like they don't care about 'the music' just because their thread is not about 'the music'.

but go ahead and teach i'm willing to learn

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:15 am

studiesinsound wrote:I'll start out by saying I haven't read this whole pissing contest. I'm not here to argue with any of the points put forth here but just add something I've been thinking about a lot regarding his topic:

No one goes to a museum to see a great painter paint.
They go for the finished work of art.
Sure everynow and again I'll watch the PBS shows on so and so and their artistic process. But really, who goes to a museum, stands in front of a gret painting and says
"Well shit, this looks nice but I'm simply not entertained! I need to see a dude in overalls splattering paint everywhere, cursin' up a storm, drinking and carrying on to get the full effect of this peice. I should have just stayed at home and looked at the print I have of this my living room wall."

But music is inherently different than a painting or any other static work of art.
You can walk in to a museum and look at a painting and take the whole thing in at a glance and move on, or hone in on one detail and stare at that 1 little part of the thing for hours if you want.

Musicians hold their audience captive. If you want to take in a whole piece of music, as an audience member you can't speed it up. The rate at which you as a listener experience the music is dictated to you by the performing monkey....i mean musician.
And maybe that's part of the unwritten deal. When you pay to get into a venue and forgo your ability to speed up or slow down the rate at which you experience what's being thrown at you, maybe on a certain level you say, well alright, If I am to give up certain rights to how I want this experience to go I will place more weight on other aspects of the performance. I'll listen to your shit at the rate and volume you dictate but damnit I need to be entertained or there will be a fucking revolt.

I'm not passing judgement on that dynamic but maybe for most people it exists that way.

For what it's worth I don't consider myself a performing artist. I have played very few live shows and while I found the experience rewarding on a certain level, it's not my main drive.
My relationship with the music is between me and the music. I'm not here to entertain anyone. That kind of isolationism and complete disregard for any audience is a double edged sword.
I make the music I want. But I acknowledge I am no fun to watch.
A rabid student of Bruce Lee and the great martial arts masters I believe in efficient movement. As a drummer that is necessary, as a guitarist not so much so. I can play some crazy ass shit on the guitar but no pete townsend windmills here.
Just a dude sitting in a chair hunched over a tele and moving his fingers.

As a society we like to watch the act of effortmaking.
Whether 90 percent of the shown effort is wasted energy that servers no practical purpose other than to look flashy.
We love fast guitar solos that have nothing to do with teh context of the song and add nothing artistically.
We love fast drum breaks and extended drum solos that don't keep the beat, and serve only to show how technical the drummer is.
We lk eto see ther people break a sweat doing something they could damn well make look easy.

But I see it as a reflection of our ever more glutunous society. In every aspect of life we want more for less.
This includes art. We need to see good art but the people making also need to entertain us. We are multitasking our creative experience.
So in a way flashy performances are valid art, as they reflect the state of our current society and the need for constant intake, constant consumption, and constant multitasking.

So in the words of another artist (great musician and flashy performer....Frank Zappa)
"Shut up and Play Yer Guitar!"

-StudiesInSound

nice post, and I agree

imho though the op was not talking about entertainment as an artform which I agree it is, but I got the sense that he as well as the other folks here who brought up passion are talking about the connection between what the artist is doing and what the audience is hearing and while hearing what they are seeing.
using your example, a guitarist playing a crazy as solo that is at an intense
part of the song getting ready to lift it off to the next transition.....(music maybe phenomenal) but the audience can't feel the intensity from the guitarist like they can from the music which leaves them wondering if the guitarist feels it, and if they believe that he doesn't it's it dampers their experience.
that's at least the impression that I got from the op post.

I don't think in any way that he was eluding that there should be some girls on stage shakin their booties or that the stones should be moving like the backstreet boys.

chrysalis33rpm · Post by **chrysalis33rpm** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:23 am

studiesinsound wrote:As a society we like to watch the act of effortmaking.
Whether 90 percent of the shown effort is wasted energy that servers no practical purpose other than to look flashy.
We love fast guitar solos that have nothing to do with teh context of the song and add nothing artistically.
We love fast drum breaks and extended drum solos that don't keep the beat, and serve only to show how technical the drummer is.
We lk eto see ther people break a sweat doing something they could damn well make look easy.

But I see it as a reflection of our ever more glutunous society. In every aspect of life we want more for less.
This includes art. We need to see good art but the people making also need to entertain us. We are multitasking our creative experience.
So in a way flashy performances are valid art, as they reflect the state of our current society and the need for constant intake, constant consumption, and constant multitasking.
-StudiesInSound

Yeah, you're right, I guess that's my beef. I don't like that aspect of our society very much. But that doesn't make it go away!

dys4ik · Post by **dys4ik** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:24 pm

Someone forwarded me to an article regarding some research done on performers' facial expressions at live concerts and how it can make it more enjoyable.

That helped me realize what it is I found lacking in that first performance, and why I wouldn't pay for a live performance to watch people stand around looking glazed (especially when they are the performers!).

http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/08/music- ... tement.php

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:54 pm

what was the original title again?

i remember it was pretty extreme.....

.lm.

EgAD · Post by **EgAD** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:59 pm

umm i think it was something about all of those fire breathers and other 'for the sake of keeping the performance intresting' artist that were at that gig you had a while back.........

whats up L.M.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:09 pm

yeah, well, i can't controll the shit i get booked with at warehouse parties. Frankly i'm not a fan of the burning man fire breather hipistical arts unicycle devilstick juggling horseshit, but a gigs a gig.

now the fine diving show, that's what i'm about. Really good music presented without pretense and without "show." Just musicians playing music and an audience interested in listening to it.

.lm.

EgAD · Post by **EgAD** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:13 pm

you know i never did ask you but can people tell what you're feeling when you play?

i was never talking about backstreetboy dance moves.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:31 pm

i got into electronic music in part because it allows me to describe emotions beyond the range of most peoples experiences. sound is very good at painting pictures of things that aren't easy to get with words or images...

soooo: i'm not that interested in what i look like while i'm playing music. I just do it and am as natural as possible while working. I hope to connect with the audience with sound. If everything goes well, they should be able to feel what i'm feeling through that.

.lm.