. I use mainly logic , but i rewire live , sometimes reason . i dont use reason anymore since I've got lots of new plug ins . I also have pc and mac just so you know....Im not getting upgrade to 4
yes..I have to correct you...as i said before I love live and use it a lot for time streching . about rewire.....I'm not complainning about rewire in this post , so why are you bringing it up??? this is all about live 4 . . I use mainly logic , but i rewire live , sometimes reason . i dont use reason anymore since I've got lots of new plug ins . I also have pc and mac just so you know....
. I use mainly logic , but i rewire live , sometimes reason . i dont use reason anymore since I've got lots of new plug ins . I also have pc and mac just so you know....-
bj
Dear dj zeddj zed wrote:this is all about live 4 .
Interesting point - well lets see:
Please explain: what does this have to do with Live 4?I'm kinda desapointed that you cant use more than 1 screen at the time , when arrenging you cant see whats going on on the clips window .
Please explain "something inovative" in this context.2 there is nothing new about live and midi....I thought ableton would come up with something inovative for midi , but no...same old ...same old .
Please read the manual.3a no key comands
Please explain.3 b no editing tools
Ben
P.S. there is something like "Feature wishlist"
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micminimal
ok i'm glad i saw Bj and your last post Zed, it gives me a better perspective of where you're coming from.
it clearly sounds to me like you'd like Live to be like one of the big 3 sequencing dawgs out there, but just like you told BJ that he's not familiar
enough with them, you're obviously not familiar enough with what Live and Ableton are about, I could be wrong and forgive me if I am but I don't think ableton are interested in going in the direction you want them to go in, I think they're going the other way.
it clearly sounds to me like you'd like Live to be like one of the big 3 sequencing dawgs out there, but just like you told BJ that he's not familiar
enough with them, you're obviously not familiar enough with what Live and Ableton are about, I could be wrong and forgive me if I am but I don't think ableton are interested in going in the direction you want them to go in, I think they're going the other way.
, I could be wrong and forgive me if I am but I don't think ableton are interested in going in the direction you want them to go in, I think they're going the other way.[/quote] .
mmm...I dont think there is "other way" . we are talking about mixing audio and midi right????? . perhaps there is different ways of aproaching the same thing , but at the end they all try to achieve a good effective way of music making . live 4 its just that , another sequencer for making music ...its easy to use and fun , but doesnt really fullfill the needs of more advanced users .
BJ---I'm glad that all you can answer about my response is ..oh boys.....it really shows you have great opinions for discussion ..hehehe..
mmm...I dont think there is "other way" . we are talking about mixing audio and midi right????? . perhaps there is different ways of aproaching the same thing , but at the end they all try to achieve a good effective way of music making . live 4 its just that , another sequencer for making music ...its easy to use and fun , but doesnt really fullfill the needs of more advanced users .
BJ---I'm glad that all you can answer about my response is ..oh boys.....it really shows you have great opinions for discussion ..hehehe..
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Robert Henke
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:38 am
- Location: Berlin
Hello.
I would like to moderate the discussion a bit.
If Live would behave like the other well known applications
there would be no reason to put it out because the other ones
are allready there. We started writing Live because we wanted
to do a few things different and i still think we managed the job quite
well. I do not want to work with tons of overlapping windows, millions of hidden commands and all the other problems i experienced when working with other "big" sequenzers. Implementing features is very simple. It is
much more complicated to resist adding and adding stuff till everything becomes a big mess of several concepts. This is one way to look at it.
On the other side it is obvious that several features are still missing.
I am personally waiting for the day when i can control Live completly with something like a HUI. I would prefer to see chord progressions displayed in musical notation. I would enjoy having the session view on one screen and the arranger on a second one. And lots of lots of lots of smal and big whishes which have been posted on this forum.
Speaking for Ableton i can say that we won´t stop thinking and developping after Live 4 and that this is just the beginning....
And as a record producer i enjoy Live very very much. Sometimes i have to switch to Protools for tasks which Live cannot do currently. But if i just have to go thru that file import / conversion process because my soundfile has the wrong bith depth / sample rate whatsover i know why i think Live is very professional.
Robert
ableton / monolake
I would like to moderate the discussion a bit.
If Live would behave like the other well known applications
there would be no reason to put it out because the other ones
are allready there. We started writing Live because we wanted
to do a few things different and i still think we managed the job quite
well. I do not want to work with tons of overlapping windows, millions of hidden commands and all the other problems i experienced when working with other "big" sequenzers. Implementing features is very simple. It is
much more complicated to resist adding and adding stuff till everything becomes a big mess of several concepts. This is one way to look at it.
On the other side it is obvious that several features are still missing.
I am personally waiting for the day when i can control Live completly with something like a HUI. I would prefer to see chord progressions displayed in musical notation. I would enjoy having the session view on one screen and the arranger on a second one. And lots of lots of lots of smal and big whishes which have been posted on this forum.
Speaking for Ableton i can say that we won´t stop thinking and developping after Live 4 and that this is just the beginning....
And as a record producer i enjoy Live very very much. Sometimes i have to switch to Protools for tasks which Live cannot do currently. But if i just have to go thru that file import / conversion process because my soundfile has the wrong bith depth / sample rate whatsover i know why i think Live is very professional.
Robert
ableton / monolake
What I hear comming from Zed is, for him, Live has always been a very DIFFERENT tool in his arsenal but this new change is not anything new or different for him. To anyone here who already works with Midi, there is no new benifit. If you already work with VST's and VSTi's (and AU's for mac people) Then there is also nothing new for you. If you already have samplers and drum machines...well, seen 1, seen em all. Already have aps to allow you to use your qwerty to control, got that covered, and on and on and on.....
However If you don't already have thoes things then the new Live jumps out at leaps and bounds which is also great. For a lot of people this opens a new world. for others it may be old news. I'm sure for a lot of people there was the expectation of new innovative Ideas Like the one that came up on the beta board where someone said something about being able to copy and paste a midi clip into an audio track and Live would instantly render it to audio with all effects applyed. That's something that NO ONE has right now. and I believe that's what Zed and many users were looking for, WHY because that's what they have come to expect from Live...It's always been known to be innovative and I'm quite sure in future there will be other inovations. This update was a big update but it was a streamline, conservative update. (which happens to have had a lot of control removed from MY arrangement view, slowing down my workflow, supposedly rumored to RETURN control an a future update....my personal beef).
My 4 cent.
However If you don't already have thoes things then the new Live jumps out at leaps and bounds which is also great. For a lot of people this opens a new world. for others it may be old news. I'm sure for a lot of people there was the expectation of new innovative Ideas Like the one that came up on the beta board where someone said something about being able to copy and paste a midi clip into an audio track and Live would instantly render it to audio with all effects applyed. That's something that NO ONE has right now. and I believe that's what Zed and many users were looking for, WHY because that's what they have come to expect from Live...It's always been known to be innovative and I'm quite sure in future there will be other inovations. This update was a big update but it was a streamline, conservative update. (which happens to have had a lot of control removed from MY arrangement view, slowing down my workflow, supposedly rumored to RETURN control an a future update....my personal beef).
My 4 cent.
"I spent my life, laughing, wondering if crazy people even realized that they're crazy.......then one day, I realized..." - Flippa
Re: Im not getting upgrade to 4
Firstly, its not altivec optimized. the optimizations are also seen on the G3, they just wrote better code. perhaps altivec optimization in the future, but not now. that said, every few beta's i'm getting about 1% better on the CPU meter than the few betas ago... so the final version may be even more powerful than the betas.dj zed wrote:I thought ableton would come up with something inovative for midi , but no...same old ...same old . live 4 looks more like a FL studio or Project 5 , but nothing like logic or cubase . 3 no key comands ...no editing tools . the only thing i like is that finally its altivec optimized . I've had live longer than logic 6 , i love live simplicity and power , but live 4 cant really be compared to logic 6. if i had to upgrade i'd waitt to see whats NEW in live 5 ........for now my mony is going to logic 7 when it comes out , i know that logic will come with something new.....
Secondly, if you are a mac user, why do you care about fruity loops?
Thirdly, to me its worth the upgrade because of the shuffle feature (the ability to shuffle non-shuffled loops), and the use of AU FX (which gives you more options and those options may be more powerful and/or less cpu intensive)
Let go of your $119 and get over yourself.
Aside from this whole Live debate, you don't have to wait for the release to shuffle non-shuffled loops......you have Reason just rex your loop then write it to the sequence, turn your shuffle dial to the desired amount for the song and quantize to shuffle. Presto, straight loops now with swing.
Donn't get me wrong I like it being in Live and will probably use it there. But you can do it now with what you already have.
Donn't get me wrong I like it being in Live and will probably use it there. But you can do it now with what you already have.
"I spent my life, laughing, wondering if crazy people even realized that they're crazy.......then one day, I realized..." - Flippa
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micminimal
willyum imho there is alot being missed here about what lives biggest feature at least in my opinion is, and that is it's interface, I don't think Live
is just suppose to be a great new thing for people who don 't have all those beatmachines and apps that you mentioned, I believe most people who have purchased live already had reason, fruityloops, acid, radial, vsti
host, and alot of other apps including hardware, for me Live has replaced an Rs7000, Roland sp-808, reason, fruity, Sonar, Project 5, an mpc, and yamaha motif, now some of the apps I still use ocasionally but the hardware is gone and it's my experience that most Live users are of this ilk, the thing we like most about live is how it does all those things that we use to do with all that other stuff and in all those other ways. so I don't agree that Lives appeal is to give Users Like zed and maybe you features that have never been thought of, but ways that have never been thought of to do the things we've all been doing for a very long time. and even though alot of users like me have vsti host , other apps, and had hardware
we're still excited about the Live 4 upgrade. I preffer the way the midi is looking out to be in Live 4 than in Sonar, I preffer the vsti handling in Live 4 to fruity loops, or other host, do a search on this forum and on kvr
and see how many people can't wait to throw Logic away and instead use this '''''not so great Live midi sequencer''''', ,, as well as on em411.com.
there are many.
is just suppose to be a great new thing for people who don 't have all those beatmachines and apps that you mentioned, I believe most people who have purchased live already had reason, fruityloops, acid, radial, vsti
host, and alot of other apps including hardware, for me Live has replaced an Rs7000, Roland sp-808, reason, fruity, Sonar, Project 5, an mpc, and yamaha motif, now some of the apps I still use ocasionally but the hardware is gone and it's my experience that most Live users are of this ilk, the thing we like most about live is how it does all those things that we use to do with all that other stuff and in all those other ways. so I don't agree that Lives appeal is to give Users Like zed and maybe you features that have never been thought of, but ways that have never been thought of to do the things we've all been doing for a very long time. and even though alot of users like me have vsti host , other apps, and had hardware
we're still excited about the Live 4 upgrade. I preffer the way the midi is looking out to be in Live 4 than in Sonar, I preffer the vsti handling in Live 4 to fruity loops, or other host, do a search on this forum and on kvr
and see how many people can't wait to throw Logic away and instead use this '''''not so great Live midi sequencer''''', ,, as well as on em411.com.
there are many.
I'm like so over this thread already 
I love Live 3 and I will continue to try to find bugs for correcting in Live 4. I have expressed some of my negative findings in a positive way on the beta board, so have a lot of other people. It serves to benefit me if Live is 100%. At this point it appears as if most of the growth is aimed at Mac users, session View users, and DJ/remixers. I am none of the above and would not mind this except the things I love about Live are in jeopardy. This is the first version that I had to really read the manual, First version that I MUST learn to memorize numerous key commands and most importantly, I now MUST learn to work in the session view if I still want to be able to control my routing which has always been done on the arrangement view (as well as the session view). On all levels this means slowed workflow for me. There are a lot of new additions that would work out great for me and I’ve been having fun with them, but not at the cost of slowed workflow. But like I said I will continue to try to find bugs and hope for a return of control in arrangement view and elevated workflow. The next few weeks, anything goes and I’m sure Ableton will work it out. So for all of the people who use Live the way I do (I think it’s called linear multi-tracking), it’s not just a matter of coughing up $120 bucks, that’s nothing, I just spent $1200 on BlueSky monitors unnecessarily. For me it’s stepping forward, not backwards (in workflow). I did not want to post this because I do not want to be negative against Live prematurely but some of you need to understand that a lot of us use Live in very different ways than you do while still maintaining Lives importance as the studio centerpiece.
"I spent my life, laughing, wondering if crazy people even realized that they're crazy.......then one day, I realized..." - Flippa
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noisetonepause
- Posts: 4938
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:38 pm
- Location: Sticks and stones
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Winterpark
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:59 am
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
