//\\//\\Ten Reasons NOT to pay for ableton//\\//\\

[ethios4]

i was made with a small small penis, and no one's fixed me yet!!

[smutek]

....my solution has been to skip every other (odd) version....

That's kind of what I do. I started with version 1.5, am currently running 5 and will upgrade to 7 when it is released. I've only purchased 2 upgrades. Got a free upgrade to 2 because of when I bought 1.5, skipped 3, bought 4, bought 5, skipped 6 and now will upgrade to 7. Overall I am happy with the product, but the upgrade cycle gets a little too hectic for me so I just step back from it, much like you.

I've never had many problems with bugs, but as a hobbyist my use of the software is nowhere near the level of the majority of the posters here so I sympathize with them. My only real gripe is no wacom tablet support, but one day it will be addressed... hopefully.

[Able2Live8]

i was made with a small small penis, and no one's fixed me yet!!

I was born with a small penis as well but a strange descovery at he age of 11 led me to maintain it every day.Now I have no complaints.

wait, are you saying that Ableton was fucking us with a small penis so we wouldn't notice and now that it's bigger some of us are buggered by it. it's as clear as sky above clouds

[smutek]

...and we also offer free products to someone who is particularly helpful, at occasions......

Yeah, Amuary - I'm don't remember if you were with Ableton then or not, but some years ago I was considering quitting smoking and started a thread about it. It turned into this huge thread and a bunch of people got inspired by the ensuing conversation, to quit smoking, drinking, taking pills, shooting dope.... whatever.

I was unsuccessful in my attempt, but I do remember you kind folks at Ableton offering me a free upgrade to Live 5 if I were to refrain from smoking until the release date.

Even though I did not quit smoking, I still think that was a really cool thought on the part of the people at Ableton. Imagine NI or Stienberg doing something like that? Not going to happen.

I still think Bounce is justified to be pissed off, but for me despite whatever imperfections there are certain reasons why I like and choose to use this software and there are also certain reasons why I like and choose to support this company.

[hacktheplanet]

1. So is Pro Tools
2. Contempt? What the hell? It's a software company, not an exclusive club. Pay to play.
3. You spelled docile wrong. Plus, Live works fine for me.
4. You're a cult.
5. Saddam Hussein is dead, so technically, his lawyer isn't "his" any more.
6. So does Avid and every other company in the universe. It's called Marketing.
7. Beats me beats you.
8. You're a communist.
9. I wouldn't pay for upgrades if they weren't worth it. Here is a very short list of companies that make their users pay for upgrades (and the upgrades tend to cost more than Live upgrades):
Microsoft
Apple
Adobe
Avid
10. You suck.

[WaveRider]

1. it's over priced
2. you are beneath their contempt
3. they spend their time coding the next paid-for-product, not working on the problems the current version has. sometimes they do work on those problems, in the next version. which you pay for. like a good, dosile little bitch

9. it never ends, you will find yourself upgrading because they either fix a bug in the next version, or put something critical into it like dualcore support, 64bit engines etc...the version you buy will languish, it has no future....when you buy into ableton you are STARTING A SUBSCRIPTION and nothing more.

agree with those, v6 is riddled with little bugs and they go to v7 without a 6.5 with improved features.

[Pasha]

So, you don't think he has a valid reason to be pissed off?

Hi folks,

I think B0unce has a very good reason to not be happy, since a thing he was told that was working actually doesn't work. And I'll add that yes, I'm and others are communicating with him as to try to solve the problem, he's not lying. Then:

- that's a very specific problem.
- software development phases are more complex than what B0unce seems to think they are.
- We do our best to solve it, given a lot of parameters are involved(not business parameters), that none, not even B0unce, could be aware of.
- The only informations we have to solve this issue are from B0unce. No other has reported the same issue, not even the company that sold the nki files to B0unce. So far he's been a great help
- Format translation IS a tricky business.


B0unce: if you do not like our way of doing things, and are not happy with what you bought, or our way to deal with it, feel free to ask for a refund. We've can offer a refund to people not happy with the product they bought, and we also offer free products to someone who is particularly helpful, at occasions. That's what it takes to be a "bad business model" oriented company. Feel free to behave as you wish, but please try to match private/public communication, it's too complicated otherwise.

Kind regards,
Amaury

I haven't seen such a correct and polite answer from a Supplier in years.
I'm happy to be an Ableton customer. All kind of software has problems but not all software companies can deliver such a Support quality of service at no cost included with the product. Whine with Apple because of Logic... 13 years.

- my 2 cents
- Pasha

[headquest]

+1 Pasha

[wilxon]

1. it's over priced
2. you are beneath their contempt
3. they spend their time coding the next paid-for-product, not working on the problems the current version has. sometimes they do work on those problems, in the next version. which you pay for. like a good, dosile little bitch

9. it never ends, you will find yourself upgrading because they either fix a bug in the next version, or put something critical into it like dualcore support, 64bit engines etc...the version you buy will languish, it has no future....when you buy into ableton you are STARTING A SUBSCRIPTION and nothing more.

agree with those, v6 is riddled with little bugs and they go to v7 without a 6.5 with improved features.

What bugs is live 6 riddled with?

Ableton are still bringing out bug fixes for 6 - 6.0.10 was out just a few weeks ago.

[wilxon]

one huge issue i have with live is the midi timing.Right now I have 5.2 and it utterly sucks compared to my xl7.Same midi data, and it feels like a different song.Live could be a great sequencer for hardware.



Shouldn't ableton move into the new version with new features and not problem fixes.If you fix the problem that the older version has, shouldn't the old version be updated with a problem fix.This is such an asshole move on ableton side.

YOU FUCKS OWE ME BETTER MIDI TIMING.

and no I won't give you any more money ever again unless this is fixed.



This shows us how serious Ableton is about what they do to survive

I bought a car in 1994..
That same model now has airbags, drinks 1 liter of gas on 20 kilometers instead of 13 and comes with a built-in MP3 player..

Still waiting for my dealer to fix me..

Sloppy Midi timing is a problem and fixing it is not a new feature.I will pay for new features but not for problem fixes.

BTW this is software and not a car and what kind of dumbass company waits for 3 versions to adress a very important issue such as midi timing

On the other hand - there are loads of new features.

Version 7 renews the core of Live.

* The enhanced audio engine improves fidelity with 64-bit mix summing,
POW-r dithering, optimized sample-rate conversion and other
advances.

* The new Compressor device integrates three compression models, one
of which is based on a feedback design commonly found in the most
praised vintage compressors.

* Fully integrated side-chaining capability is available for the new
Compressor, as well as Gate and Auto Filter.

* High-Quality modes have been added to Operator, Dynamic Tube and
Saturator for anti-aliased processing and reduction of typical
"digital" artifacts.

* EQ Eight has an improved user interface and a 64 bit mode for
increased accuracy.

* The new Spectrum analyzer provides visual feedback for any audio
signals within Live (and it looks really cool!).

* The MIDI engine has been reworked to minimize timing error (jitter)
of recorded MIDI.

* Hardware integration has been streamlined—hardware synthesizers and
effects can now be inserted into device chains just like software
plug-ins.

* New memory management technology allows users of large sample
libraries, such as Ableton's new sampled instruments or third-party
libraries imported via Sampler, to run an impressive number of
instruments at the same time. This happens automatically, with no
setup changes required.

* New audio and MIDI fact sheets explain exactly how signals are (or
are not) being modified when using specific features in Live and
provide tips for achieving the highest quality results.


Live 7 brings the features most frequently requested by our users.

* Time signature changes can be inserted in the Arrangement timeline
and tied to Session scenes.

* Warped and unwarped video can be exported to files.

* Multiple automation lanes per track can be displayed and edited at
the same time.

* A new "tempo nudge" function makes it easier to synchronize to live
musicians or DJs.

* REX files can be dragged, dropped and played just like WAV or AIFF
files.

* Live, Operator and Sampler have received many small improvements and
additions based on users' requests.


The new "Drum Rack" streamlines beat production via an easy
drag-and-drop interface and brings endless creative possibilities.

* A familiar drum pad interface allows dragging and dropping of
samples, instruments and effects.

* Every pad can have its own Sampler, Simpler, Operator, or any other
virtual instrument or plug-in, and its own individual effects chain.

* The slicing feature fills a Drum Rack with the individual hits from
REX or audio loops. The original sequence is represented as a MIDI
clip, making it easy to replace, reshuffle or re-record the events
and process them individually.

* A Drum Rack can have its own sends, returns and submixes.

* Every pad can be shown as a mixer channel in the Session View.

* Each drum can be dragged out of its Rack for isolated pattern
control and editing.


NEW ABLETON INSTRUMENTS
=======================

The new add-on instruments are the result of Ableton's collaboration
with leading industry partners. The palette covers physical models of
electric pianos, analog synthesizers and string instruments as well as
multi-mic/multilayer sampled acoustic drums, drum machines,
orchestral strings, brass, woodwinds and percussion. The instruments
integrate tightly into Live, both in terms of workflow and resource
management.

* TENSION is a physical modeling string synthesizer based on the
advanced technology found in String Studio from Applied Acoustics
Systems (AAS, http://www.applied-acoustics.com). Through the use of
mathematical models, Tension simulates each component of a stringed
instrument. Tweak everything from how the string is played—with a
pick, bow or hammer—to the size and type of instrument body used.
Create incredibly accurate reproductions of real instruments or
design otherworldly hybrids, all within Live's familiar working
environment.

* ELECTRIC offers the much sought-after sounds of classic electric
pianos. Based on AAS's acclaimed Lounge Lizard, Electric uses the
same advanced physical modeling synthesis technology and integrates
perfectly into Live's workflow. Because Electric uses synthesis,
users can dive inside and play with the guts of the instrument—the
hammers, tines, pickups and more—to achieve just that right amount
of melancholy or bark and bite.

* ANALOG emulates the unique circuitry and irresistible tweakability
of vintage analog synthesizers, employing the renowned physical
modeling technology of AAS's Ultra Analog. Analog is a creative
workhorse that features versatile alias-free oscillators, multimode
filters, syncable LFOs, looping envelope generators and much more.
Able to produce everything from silky pad sweeps to earth-shaking
bass, Analog is also completely integrated in Live's familiar
interface.

* SESSION DRUMS is a meticulously multisampled library of acoustic
drums that reproduces the nuances of a recording session and puts
you in the engineer's seat. Session Drums gives you full control of
the close mics for each drum as well as the overheads and room mics,
so you can craft the perfect drum mix for your songs. Session Drums
also includes stereo kits appropriate for various musical styles and
a variety of MIDI grooves to speed up the production process.
Session Drums was created in collaboration with ChocolateAudio
(http://www.chocolateaudio.com), makers of the critically acclaimed
"Imperial Drums."

* DRUM MACHINES offers a choice selection of classic drum machines,
meticulously sampled and programmed by Ableton content developer
PureMagnetik (http://www.puremagnetik.com), to faithfully reproduce
the original sounds. Drum Machines is easily tweaked with cleverly
mapped controls, allowing users to experiment with the inner
workings of the instrument and adjust to taste.

* ORCHESTRAL STRINGS, BRASS, WOODWINDS, PERCUSSION are four
collections of sampled orchestral instruments featuring a number of
variations and articulations, created in partnership with SONiVOX
(http://www.sonivoxmi.com), a leading provider of premium sampled
instruments. Recorded with the expertise of world-class musicians,
engineers and producers, these collections put a world of authentic
symphonic possibilities at the composer's fingertips. The Orchestral
Strings, Brass, Woodwinds and Percussion collections take advantage
of complete integration with Live and its new resource-efficient
sample engine, allowing users to work with an impressive number of
instruments in their compositions.

* ESSENTIAL INSTRUMENT COLLECTION 2 is a multi-gigabyte collection of
meticulously sampled and selected instruments, offering a choice
selection of acoustic and electric pianos, guitars, bass, drums,
orchestral strings, brass, woodwinds and more. Version 2 adds
acoustic and electronic drums as well as presets optimized for
better sound quality and faster loading.


ABLETON SUITE
=============

Ableton Suite is a combination of Live 7 plus a choice selection of
Ableton instruments. This attractively priced package provides a
comprehensive set of musical tools, all smoothly integrated into
Live's acclaimed workflow. The download version of Ableton Suite
includes Live 7, Sampler, Operator, Electric, Analog, Tension and Drum
Machines. The boxed version of Ableton Suite additionally includes the
Essential Instrument Collection 2 and Session Drums.

I for 1 will be upgrading to the AL7 suite. small price to pay for AAS technology and all of the Ableton synths as i dont have operator & sampler.

woo hoo

[nolus]

1. it's over priced
2. you are beneath their contempt
3. they spend their time coding the next paid-for-product, not working on the problems the current version has. sometimes they do work on those problems, in the next version. which you pay for. like a good, dosile little bitch

9. it never ends, you will find yourself upgrading because they either fix a bug in the next version, or put something critical into it like dualcore support, 64bit engines etc...the version you buy will languish, it has no future....when you buy into ableton you are STARTING A SUBSCRIPTION and nothing more.

agree with those, v6 is riddled with little bugs and they go to v7 without a 6.5 with improved features.

Just because they are beta testing 7 doesn't mean they won't release a 6.x. If I remember rightly 5.2 was released after 6.

[wilxon]

1. it's over priced
2. you are beneath their contempt
3. they spend their time coding the next paid-for-product, not working on the problems the current version has. sometimes they do work on those problems, in the next version. which you pay for. like a good, dosile little bitch

9. it never ends, you will find yourself upgrading because they either fix a bug in the next version, or put something critical into it like dualcore support, 64bit engines etc...the version you buy will languish, it has no future....when you buy into ableton you are STARTING A SUBSCRIPTION and nothing more.

agree with those, v6 is riddled with little bugs and they go to v7 without a 6.5 with improved features.

Just because they are beta testing 7 doesn't mean they won't release a 6.x. If I remember rightly 5.2 was released after 6.

You remembered wrong, 5.2 was released when apple broght out the intel macs (february 06), 6 followed in september.

They did release 5.2.2 after 6.0.1 though so your statement is correct.

[tisco_over]

1. it's over priced
2. you are beneath their contempt
3. they spend their time coding the next paid-for-product, not working on the problems the current version has. sometimes they do work on those problems, in the next version. which you pay for. like a good, dosile little bitch
4. it's a cult
5. they have hired saddam hussein's lawyer to deal with customer complaints
6. they partner up with companies like m-audio. quality or market share. quality or market share? quality....market share.... , market share please satan and a new beamer "right you are so gherard, should the beamer be pink as usual ?"
7. guys like 'beats me' hang out here
8. content sellers are constantly grooming you, waiting to get their sticky claws onto your wallet. this is the perfect place to sell content, a cult populated by sycophants who by definition of paying for the product and showing their pearly whites - have a loose ass.
9. it never ends, you will find yourself upgrading because they either fix a bug in the next version, or put something critical into it like dualcore support, 64bit engines etc...the version you buy will languish, it has no future....when you buy into ableton you are STARTING A SUBSCRIPTION and nothing more.
10. cos b0unce seh so.

i think you have some good points - though i dont like your way of criticism ...

[nolus]

agree with those, v6 is riddled with little bugs and they go to v7 without a 6.5 with improved features.

Just because they are beta testing 7 doesn't mean they won't release a 6.x. If I remember rightly 5.2 was released after 6.

You remembered wrong, 5.2 was released when apple broght out the intel macs (february 06), 6 followed in september.

They did release 5.2.2 after 6.0.1 though so your statement is correct.

Ahh yes, I remember it well.

[b0unce]

B0unce: if you do not like our way of doing things, and are not happy with what you bought, or our way to deal with it, feel free to ask for a refund. We've can offer a refund to people not happy with the product they bought, and we also offer free products to someone who is particularly helpful, at occasions. That's what it takes to be a "bad business model" oriented company. Feel free to behave as you wish, but please try to match private/public communication, it's too complicated otherwise.

Kind regards,
Amaury

hi amaury,
if you or ralf had offered me that refund 8 months ago, back in march - maybe it would have meant something. As far as I'm concerned it's not a refund situation now, because you can't refund the last 8 months of my time.... not only did the original .nki's go unused, but I didn't experiment and try anymore nki's. I just waited, and waited, and waited ...I could never have guessed it would have taken 8 months to be sorted out ....in the next version.
No, this is a compensation situation IMO. Besides, I've invested time into ableton and all my projects are live projects. why should I trash all that investment of time instead of ableton doing what it should do, and living up to it's promises.
I mean, I was under the impression germany had some of the best business/consumer laws & standards in europe.
Just because I'm the only person who noticed/highlighted this flaw to you, does not mean you can still advertise it as fully functional on your website.
The fact i'm the only one nagging you can mean alot of things, such as most people with nki libraries 'own' kontakt too. SAMPLER/llive6 is no less flawed because of that - but it would certainly explain why so few have nagged you about it.
infact, I recall two or three other forum users talking about that open-with-kontakt-and-resave-the-patch workaround.
good for them, damned if I was going to buy kontakt to attempt the workaround or run the libraries. well, I know the workaround doesn't work for these nki's - but buying kontakt to run the libraries is what would have been applicable to me in this situation.
maybe you, or your team leader, should have bought me a copy of kontakt months ago when you knew it would take this long to fix ? SAMPLER/live6 would have been just as flawed - but I wouldn't have been nagging you....and so by your given logic, if no one is nagging you - it works as advertised.


I'll keep behaving as I usually do, perhaps I'll keep any eye on my choice of words with regards cracks