perhaps some of you may computer dj's may want to try xtal. it's a djing tool that is meant to emulate the functionality of traktor - but it is a vsti - so you should be able to just load it up into live 4, sync to live's tempo, add vst effects, etc..
http://www.irdbisa.com/gunshopsoft/xtal/
haven't tried it out myself. but from reading this thread, i was reminded of seeing this over on kvr, and was thinking it might be a great solution for some of you. not to mention, it's free (though still in beta).
Ableton, it's just a big tease for DJ's...?
-
paradiddle
- Posts: 512
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:21 am
- Location: mtl
2kilos, I don't know why you on keep insisting that live is being showcased has a DJ tool only. If that would be the case then have a look at www.ableton.com "Realtime music production system"
You can see a 6string bass, a vocal mike and a mixer (assuming a DJ or laptop performer). This software is a new breed with the emphasis on live performance and ease of use. That's all. It's for everybody regardless of what they do.
I'm not trying to be mean to you in anyway but I think that your original message is kind of pointless. You seem to think that this software is meant to replace a turntable. It can't just like drum machines can't replace a live drummer's groove.
Like somebody wrote after you, try to look beyond. This tool can only add to your current DJing skills.
You can see a 6string bass, a vocal mike and a mixer (assuming a DJ or laptop performer). This software is a new breed with the emphasis on live performance and ease of use. That's all. It's for everybody regardless of what they do.
I'm not trying to be mean to you in anyway but I think that your original message is kind of pointless. You seem to think that this software is meant to replace a turntable. It can't just like drum machines can't replace a live drummer's groove.
Like somebody wrote after you, try to look beyond. This tool can only add to your current DJing skills.
-
bensuthers
- Posts: 760
- Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:51 am
> why sling just a crossfader in for DJ's while not giving them the other
> tools
ah hah. see, the issue here is, that you assumed they put the crossfader in for DJ's.
they didn't. they put it in for themselves.
Live seems to be designed to fill a few holes in modern sequencer / daw packages.
the problems it solve, very well are:
a) realtime operation without stopping playback
b) working with audio files as bars and beats
c) two screen operation with no popus (vst's excluded, but you don't have to use their popups either!)
d) flexible and powerful control & automation with no programming or advanced configuration required
e) low cpu usage
...and it does those things exceedingly well.
god help us if it stops.
> tools
ah hah. see, the issue here is, that you assumed they put the crossfader in for DJ's.
they didn't. they put it in for themselves.
Live seems to be designed to fill a few holes in modern sequencer / daw packages.
the problems it solve, very well are:
a) realtime operation without stopping playback
b) working with audio files as bars and beats
c) two screen operation with no popus (vst's excluded, but you don't have to use their popups either!)
d) flexible and powerful control & automation with no programming or advanced configuration required
e) low cpu usage
...and it does those things exceedingly well.
god help us if it stops.
-
Guest
@paradiddle
@bensuthers
yeah the crossfader and "DJ tutorial" kinda give the impression of possible DJ applications... Also the software as an instrument thing...? All I'm saying is that there are functions that would benefit DJ's and musicians in a live performance. I know StompJ is worried about carving up Ableton into a DJ tool, but these features [should be there anyway] are often tiny implementations, as easily hidden or viewed as clip envelopes....
It's obvious the difficulty in trying to discribe these features to "musicians" all I can say is trust me there's vast untapped potential in Live as a performance tool...
No, I don't see Ableton marketed as a DJ tool only, but I see it pushed as an option. Thats the tease mate, why have a pdf tutorial on DJ'ing with Live? Why have a crossfader?you keep on insisting that live is being showcased has a DJ tool only
If you had understood even the smallest part of what I discribe as "Performance functions" and their application as a DJ or Live musican you would see that Abeltons vast potential is locked up. I'm looking sooo far beyond you that you cant see me...[sounds bigheaded sorry]Like somebody wrote after you, try to look beyond. This tool can only add to your current DJing skills
@bensuthers
nah I think they put it in to expand their market share, hook in a few DJ's...?ah hah. see, the issue here is, that you assumed they put the crossfader in for DJ's
yeah the crossfader and "DJ tutorial" kinda give the impression of possible DJ applications... Also the software as an instrument thing...? All I'm saying is that there are functions that would benefit DJ's and musicians in a live performance. I know StompJ is worried about carving up Ableton into a DJ tool, but these features [should be there anyway] are often tiny implementations, as easily hidden or viewed as clip envelopes....
It's obvious the difficulty in trying to discribe these features to "musicians" all I can say is trust me there's vast untapped potential in Live as a performance tool...
-
ShortTermEffect
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 5:48 am
- Location: australia
i think its interesting that one of the biggest dj's in the world, sahsa, is switching to live. according to the press i have read, he is ditching the turntables and using live instead.
obviously sahsas not into scratching and alot of turntable tricks that many djs are...but its very interesting to note anyway...he said something like...'its not about how well you can mix anymore, anyone can beatmix...its about what you play...'
good for him (:
obviously sahsas not into scratching and alot of turntable tricks that many djs are...but its very interesting to note anyway...he said something like...'its not about how well you can mix anymore, anyone can beatmix...its about what you play...'
good for him (:
When I read this
Well, that's not the point, is it?
You can do that actually, but it would become rather dull, at that point, with the auto tempo matching and all the other features.
What you don't get is that one of Live main targets is to produce and/or deejay your own (talking about me) loops or samples, using 8/+ tracks (always talking about me), and not throwing in a finished track and bitching about 'Oh no, what do I need a crossfader for, I just use one track!' or 'Dammit, I can't change the pitch and do manual tempo matching!', since Live makes it 'easy' on such features just to let you focus on more important things, like filter cutting a bass riff while you gate and delay a vocal and give some reverb to the percussions... or change the tempo on the fly while you layer some drums... and these are just a few of the thousands of possibilites with Live, get the point?
Sorry if I'm dodgy, but I'm tired of people talkin' bullshit.
Hope this post has cleared your mind a little, and if I didn't get your point, I don't understand what the f**k you were trying to say.
Cheers,
the ar
I suddenly thought 'Hey, this guy thinks he can just shove a full track in live and mix it like if he's using a mixer and a turntable!'Anonymous wrote: ...why have a pdf tutorial on DJ'ing with Live? Why have a crossfader?
Well, that's not the point, is it?
You can do that actually, but it would become rather dull, at that point, with the auto tempo matching and all the other features.
What you don't get is that one of Live main targets is to produce and/or deejay your own (talking about me) loops or samples, using 8/+ tracks (always talking about me), and not throwing in a finished track and bitching about 'Oh no, what do I need a crossfader for, I just use one track!' or 'Dammit, I can't change the pitch and do manual tempo matching!', since Live makes it 'easy' on such features just to let you focus on more important things, like filter cutting a bass riff while you gate and delay a vocal and give some reverb to the percussions... or change the tempo on the fly while you layer some drums... and these are just a few of the thousands of possibilites with Live, get the point?
Sorry if I'm dodgy, but I'm tired of people talkin' bullshit.
Hope this post has cleared your mind a little, and if I didn't get your point, I don't understand what the f**k you were trying to say.
Cheers,
the ar
Hi the ar,
I would say that you are not really DJ'ing with your own loops/samples, your performance sounds closer to that of a traditional band, but by one person, with some room for improvisation? [compared to a band] If you were to compile your loops into a finished song, then perform/reconstruct this with Live that would be closer to DJ'ing.
-----------------------------------------------------
I will try and define DJ'ing to give a clearer picture of some differences between this and a musician. Its not black and white anymore, its not going to be 100% correct. or cover everything.
-DJ's mostly play other peoples finished music [crowds may recognise the songs and know when a DJ begins to perform]
-It is this ability to rearrange a finished song in realtime as a performance that is a measure of DJ's skill.
-A great trumpet player maybe measured on his ability to play his instrument, a great DJ maybe measured on his ability to play and rearrange the trumpet player's recording [in realtime].
-A skilled DJ plays the mixer and decks [and any other functions available] in realtime like a musician plays a piano.
-----------------------------------------------------
Like I said, a vast generalisation. Obviously Live blurs a lot [if not all] of these points. It is an amazing jump from linear sequencers, but it still [for me as a DJ] needs to unleash itself from thinking of performance like a road map, and add some flexible, spontaneous, powerful realtime features...?
Anyway the point of the original post was what a tease Ableton is to us DJ's...
If I wanted to do just that I would stick to m'turntables....I suddenly thought 'Hey, this guy thinks he can just shove a full track in live and mix it like if he's using a mixer and a turntable!'
exactly, the whole point, agreed....You can do that actually, but it would become rather dull, at that point, with the auto tempo matching and all the other features.
Sorry mate, you didn't quite get the point...and if I didn't get your point, I don't understand what the f**k you were trying to say.
I would say that you are not really DJ'ing with your own loops/samples, your performance sounds closer to that of a traditional band, but by one person, with some room for improvisation? [compared to a band] If you were to compile your loops into a finished song, then perform/reconstruct this with Live that would be closer to DJ'ing.-----------------------------------------------------
I will try and define DJ'ing to give a clearer picture of some differences between this and a musician. Its not black and white anymore, its not going to be 100% correct. or cover everything.
-DJ's mostly play other peoples finished music [crowds may recognise the songs and know when a DJ begins to perform]
-It is this ability to rearrange a finished song in realtime as a performance that is a measure of DJ's skill.
-A great trumpet player maybe measured on his ability to play his instrument, a great DJ maybe measured on his ability to play and rearrange the trumpet player's recording [in realtime].
-A skilled DJ plays the mixer and decks [and any other functions available] in realtime like a musician plays a piano.
-----------------------------------------------------
Like I said, a vast generalisation. Obviously Live blurs a lot [if not all] of these points. It is an amazing jump from linear sequencers, but it still [for me as a DJ] needs to unleash itself from thinking of performance like a road map, and add some flexible, spontaneous, powerful realtime features...?
Its obviously not an easy topic to explain, like I said earlier you kinda have to be a DJ to understand.I'm tired of people talking' bullshit.
Anyway the point of the original post was what a tease Ableton is to us DJ's...
-
paradiddle
- Posts: 512
- Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:21 am
- Location: mtl
You are so far beyond that seem lost somehow.If you had understood even the smallest part of what I discribe as "Performance functions" and their application as a DJ or Live musican you would see that Abeltons vast potential is locked up. I'm looking sooo far beyond you that you cant see me...[sounds bigheaded sorry]
I don't think their potential is locked at all. They can't possible cram every function they though off in this release. They will add more in time.
And I am musician. Along with audiomulch and logic, these tools are amazing and I do benefit from using them all the time.
@ShortTermEffect
this is the part I remember from an I read interview:
Sasha: "I use Live as a third deck to loop and play samples over on top of my DJ set. The way you can sequence tracks within Live, beat-matching isn’t an issue anymore..." and "it needs to be tweaked to be DJ-friendly. They need to write a DJ version of Ableton Live...."
I get the impression he tried Final Scatch, CDJ's then went back to using vinyl but with Ableton as well...? Dunno.
this is the part I remember from an I read interview:
Sasha: "I use Live as a third deck to loop and play samples over on top of my DJ set. The way you can sequence tracks within Live, beat-matching isn’t an issue anymore..." and "it needs to be tweaked to be DJ-friendly. They need to write a DJ version of Ableton Live...."
I get the impression he tried Final Scatch, CDJ's then went back to using vinyl but with Ableton as well...? Dunno.
Okay, I get your point, but I don't totally agree with you...
A dj 'reconstructs' a track and tries to 'insert' his own improvisation, but he can only reach a certain level of both, and this is limiting, imho.
Live takes deejaying one step further, since I can reconstruct and improvise on a more subtle level...
And I'm doing this at a higher level: I could possibly edit almost every little thing, from the vocal to the drum kick, and not only do cuts, set cue points, etc (but I can also do these things too...)
Much better, and theorically a higher skill level is required (not only I'm editing, but I also played it in the first place).
In conclusion, I am a producer who deejays on his productions.
I'm a producer, and I'm a deejay.
Hope you get my point.
Cheers,
the ar
A dj 'reconstructs' a track and tries to 'insert' his own improvisation, but he can only reach a certain level of both, and this is limiting, imho.
Live takes deejaying one step further, since I can reconstruct and improvise on a more subtle level...
Like a DJ, I play finished music. But I don't play music done by someone else, I play MY finished music (finished... all of my samples receive their final dedicated gigging master within live [they are already produced, and not 'played' live]). I find this to be much more inspiring and to be 'proud of', even if this is not the point.2kilo wrote:-DJ's mostly play other peoples finished music [crowds may recognise the songs and know when a DJ begins to perform]
I am rearranging my finished loops and samples, in realtime.-It is this ability to rearrange a finished song in realtime as a performance that is a measure of DJ's skill.
And I'm doing this at a higher level: I could possibly edit almost every little thing, from the vocal to the drum kick, and not only do cuts, set cue points, etc (but I can also do these things too...)
As said above, I'm the DJ rearranging the trumpet player's recording, but I'm also the trumpet player.-A great trumpet player maybe measured on his ability to play his instrument, a great DJ maybe measured on his ability to play and rearrange the trumpet player's recording [in realtime].
Much better, and theorically a higher skill level is required (not only I'm editing, but I also played it in the first place).
I play my midicontrollers (and any other function available), wich are my deejay tools that give me even more control over the tracks that I play (it's like having a huge mixer).-A skilled DJ plays the mixer and decks [and any other functions available] in realtime like a musician plays a piano.
In conclusion, I am a producer who deejays on his productions.
I'm a producer, and I'm a deejay.
Hope you get my point.
Cheers,
the ar
-
Guest
2kilo...in an interview he did about a month ago...at inthemix.com.au...an australian dance site...
bluenialler: Are you going to incorporate this digital technology into your live sets? Are you finally taking a step away from vinyl?
Sasha: Yes, I’m actually going 100% digital in around 2 weeks time. Ditching vinyl and CDs and playing off my computer.
joel_Uk: How is the incorporation of Abelton Live into your sets progressing? What effect do you think this will have on your performance/sound?
Sasha: I think, in all honesty, Abelton Live is an absolute revolution. It’s going to change DJing forever. People will look back in 5 years and say 'you actually had to beatmatch records back then?' I’m still buying so much vinyl, but I’m putting it into my computer so I can manipulate it in Abelton, its revolutionary. As a DJ it's the most amazing tool that’s ever been invented.
bluenialler: Are you going to incorporate this digital technology into your live sets? Are you finally taking a step away from vinyl?
Sasha: Yes, I’m actually going 100% digital in around 2 weeks time. Ditching vinyl and CDs and playing off my computer.
joel_Uk: How is the incorporation of Abelton Live into your sets progressing? What effect do you think this will have on your performance/sound?
Sasha: I think, in all honesty, Abelton Live is an absolute revolution. It’s going to change DJing forever. People will look back in 5 years and say 'you actually had to beatmatch records back then?' I’m still buying so much vinyl, but I’m putting it into my computer so I can manipulate it in Abelton, its revolutionary. As a DJ it's the most amazing tool that’s ever been invented.
Maybe once Sasha has completely got rid of his vinyls and he suddenly wants to take advantage of the software possibilities and loop stuff quickly for instance, he'll give another interview saying something different.
Maybe he'll pop in this forum.
Or another program, more DJ friendly, will appear and that will be the next revolutionnary program.
And Sasha is a DJ amongst thousands, what he does with live doesn't have to be what ALL DJs do.
Maybe he'll pop in this forum.
Or another program, more DJ friendly, will appear and that will be the next revolutionnary program.
And Sasha is a DJ amongst thousands, what he does with live doesn't have to be what ALL DJs do.