OT: The End of Suburbia

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.

Are you changing your lifestyle yet?

Yes
17
68%
No
3
12%
Doesn't matter, 2012 will sort it out.
5
20%
 
Total votes: 25

pepezabala
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Post by pepezabala » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:41 am

Did you read about the novelty theory ?

Novelty theory has a few basic tenets:

That the universe is a living system with a teleological attractor at the end of time that drives the increase and conservation of complexity in material forms.
That novelty and complexity increase over time, despite repeated set-backs.
That the human brain represents the pinnacle of complex organization in the known universe to date.
That fluctuations in novelty over time are self-similar at different scales. Thus the rise and fall of the Roman Empire might be resonant with the life of a family within a single generation, or with an individual's day at work.

Well, the roman empire is rising here at work, hope it falls soon, hahaha!!

I really like the idea that the human brain is representing the increasing complexity of the universe. I would like to believe that we are at the point of connecting our brains in huge network, that again is connected to technology and all forms of represented knowledge in machines and artificial intelligence. Thus leading us to the point of infinite complexity.

You can see that in music - complex glitchy electronics are already sometimes like all kinds of music at the same time. And there is a endless examples of multi-paradigm-art-styles ... (cue Jamie Lidell "multiply" :-)

Also I like the fact that it is not really clear if novelty theory is a theory or a parody of a theory ....

gjm
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Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:53 am

Post by gjm » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:57 am

pepezabala wrote:
Did you read about the novelty theory ?
Yes. Thankyou.
I really like the idea that the human brain is representing the increasing complexity of the universe.
I am amazed at the human brains ability to continue to soak up every new horizon. The ability to know that if you progress toward that horizon, you will see yet another. I am also amazed at how very simple it is to tell yourself 'There are no more horizons.'
iMac - 10.10.3 - Live 9 Suite - APC40 - Axiom 61 - TX81z - Firestudio Mobile - Focal Alpha 80's - Godin Session - Home made foot controller

heavensdaw
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Post by heavensdaw » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:44 pm

Some great posts here!

First of all, thanks to zstowasser... for stating this thread..I know where you're coming from bro.
I have been toying with the idea of putting a thread together about 2012.. you've done it...props m8..

Like i've said in other posts... I came out to rural Spain 7 years ago... Basically to experience life in a different way than I could have done (easily) in the UK.. i.e.. Away from the herd, where I could be, connect with nature, and generally do stuff beyond my conditioning... So I'll just say to GROW :)
I live out here (with my wife and two young sons) in a pretty different way than I used to back in England.. i.e. Off the grid No water\electricity\sewage\waste disposal\post\nip round the corner shop etc.... So we have had to learn how to use our resources VERY carefully.. So many things that I had before totally taken for granted.

Back in England I had lived in lots of different places. Mainly around Brighton, which is a total hippy\party animal paradise 8O I really enjoyed my time there. But there came a day that I just had to move on...

Back in 82 I learnt a technique of meditation..I practiced this intensely for about 20 years........Shit!!....... And witnessed a flower bloom...

What I really connected to in the video was when the guy says "consciousness is the awareness of being (aware).. AWAKE..

Our eye(s) can see everything except for one thing..... ITSELF..... for that it needs a reflection... a mirror, to be aware (of it's self)...

I'm interested in the Mayan calendar. But I wasn't back in 84 when I took a trip out to the Yucatan in Mexico with a couple of my more lets say 'alternative' friends.. We visited the pyramid at Chichen itza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichen_Itza). It wasn't a planned visit it was on route. We were heading to Mexico City from Cancun, and our bus driver pulled over for a break at the pyramid.
Being young and enthusiastic I raced off to climb up... Strangely, I thought, nobody else did. When I got to he top and got my breath back, I started to 'take in' the place.. The energy felt INTENSE... like electricity on a cellular level.. I was BUZZING and so was EVERYTHING else...Then cutting through this, came a feeling that was saying 'your being watched'. I looked down to where the bus was parked, and could see everyone milling about and stuff.. but nobody was looking up at me or the pyramid as far as I could see.. but this feeling remained. I turned around and looked up to the roof of the construction that sits on top of the pyramid and saw this HUGE lizard starring down at me.... Reptile Star Gods, Messengers of Contact.. I dunno, We cant put into words, exactly what we feel... Especially on an internet forum :wink:

Anyway... Things on this planet, are going through some incredible changes, but they have always been.. No?
I personally think that society as we know it is in a very precarious situation...From so many sides. Just one example was in New Orleans.... Take away what people need, or even what they think they need, and we become VERY different animals...

I'm starting to stockpile.. Not in a manic way. But doing it. If nothing more it's good economics, seeing how food bills grow. China has just lost a vast amount of it crops due the severe winter it is having, England is underwater, Australian food production is down, Europe's agriculture has and is suffering from ridiculous temperature increase, and climate change, the ice caps are melting... C'mon people WAKE UP! Time... the thing the you strap around your wrist..... is running out! (NOT directed a anybody in particular :wink:) end of rant....

We are gonna find out what happens in 2012, when we get there.....

Peace

Hd

zstowasser
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Post by zstowasser » Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:56 pm

gjm & hb - We're on the same page, really. My choice of words could have many different interpretations.

What I'm trying to get at, is that I don't rule anything out, I keep an open mind and I learn and research as much as I can. I don't have time to go investigate the mayan calendar and interview the elders, or physically see the pictures/drawings of the tablet, etc. I also don't have the time or resources to double check all the work of the researchers and scientists who have worked on the theory of evolution. I rely on others to convey the information. I have read enough to believe, trust it, or "have faith" in the mayan calendar. If it really is a hoax, I hope someone does the research and shows it and I will read their work and discuss it. We'll know in 2012 what was supposed to happen anyways, it's just a short time away. I think the actual date of December 21st 2012 or October 28th, 2011 won't mean much. Consciousness will be evolving towards them and life will continue after them. I think those who don't learn to trust their intuition will have a hard time adapting to life in those times, look at all the shortages and crises that are looming on the horizon (food, money, energy, land, water). I believe life as we know it will change. This is why I posted The End Of Suburbia. I think what once was suburbia will have a new name, a new meaning. It could very well be slums until we get the right technology into place to make them useful again. Without cheap oil and centralized distribution, they won't function properly.

Maybe I won't use the word faith anymore, just like I don't like to use the word God to represent spiritual energy - they invoke bad feelings to me.

My point is that we are learning new things all the time and what we once believed as fact or truth has since been disproven. I would rather believe evolution than creationist, but there are still many unanswered questions in evolution for me to absolutely believe it as fact, even though it seems extremely more possible and probable than creationist theory and the stories of the bible. I like how the mayan calendar mixes science and spirituality, so currently I am resonanting with this.

The fact is that we don't know why we're here, how we came here or where we're going. Maybe something new will come along to answer more questions in the future, we will need to have an open mind and keep asking those questions, keep exploring.

I think maybe part of the reason why we're here is to figure that out. My personal belief is that I must leave this earth in better shape than I found it, that is my purpose. So currently I am growing spiritually to become more peaceful, and moving my lifestyle to live sustainability. I have found resonance in the concept of enlightenment, free of grasping (no anxiety / control), not taking part in things that bring suffering to myself or anyone else (I have given up dance music and the late night schedule). I am writing melodic ambient music, with no drums (the sharp attacks now don't feel good when I'm fully living in the present).

And I'm free of materialistic desires ( I don't have to have the latest and greatest shiny thing, just what works and gets the job done. I don't have to buy things to be cool. ) I like to have my computer and a keyboard and some speakers, but if something happened and I lost them, I have now come to terms that I would be ok. I'd find something else to be creative with. I don't save up and slave away to buy something, being unhappy until I buy it. I am learning to live within my means, go with the flow and know that everything will work out as long as I am trusting my intuition.

Trusting our intuition can't be proven, you have to trust it through trial and error. Do you guys know what I mean? Sometimes I have an urge, maybe call it an instinct, to do something. If I don't act on it, I will regret it. Sometimes it is small, sometimes big. When I am in tune with this, life seems to just flow.. like a dream. It's really amazing. I have had so much anxiety and stress years before when I tried to force things to happen and resisted change.

The swedish guy dr. calleman who was the partner in the mayan calendar project with ian has a book out about it. In it he says at 2012 we will have a merging of east and west thought. the east do not think the way we do about time and order, so he thinks it will be an end to 'time' as we know it. Also, we will have a unitary consciousness - knowing that we are all one - similar to what you guys are talking about that we're all connected and our minds create our reality, I like this idea, law of attraction, quantum physics, etc.

Many of the problems we have in the world are due to fear and anxiety. This leads to control and friction between people. This leads to violence and wars. If we could have a unitary consciousness and realize we're all in it together, and stop thinking in terms of US vs Them, we'd be moving in a better direction with less violence and suffering.

I am not ready to think that it's time to be self-less and give everything to others who have less. I do believe in survival of the fittest - those who don't prepare and grow deserve their suffering - but if someone harmed them, then I think its ok to help them. I am not sure on how to handle the starving people around the world though, those who are 'less fortunate', maybe if I was super rich, I'd help them out, but I know that is a massive problem with no easy solution. Some say we're over populated, maybe it's natures way to clean things up and we have to let it go?

There are many answered questions and I like thinking about them, It gives me an extra dimension in life, and hope for a better future, and reason to work towards one.

Heavensdaw - WOW. What an amazing story. I have heard about the reptilians and it was a bit much for me to believe. I hadn't heard a story from someone personally before though... Goes to show, anything is possible and something is up with those mayans... Maybe the reptilians were the ones who gave them the information about the calendar five thousand years ago :)
Zachary Stowasser & Stillwater Records - www.stillwaterrecords.com - www.myspace.com/zstowasser - feel good electronica - Info Patriots - sharing the truth - www.infopatriots.org

gjm
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Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:53 am

Post by gjm » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:59 pm

heavensdaw wrote:
First of all, thanks to zstowasser... for stating this thread..
+ 1 8)
zstowasser wrote:
gjm & hb - We're on the same page, really.
++1 :D
What I'm trying to get at, is that I don't rule anything out, I keep an open mind and I learn and research as much as I can. I don't have time to go investigate the mayan calendar and interview the elders, or physically see the pictures/drawings of the tablet, etc. I also don't have the time or resources to double check all the work of the researchers and scientists who have worked on the theory of evolution. I rely on others to convey the information. I have read enough to believe, trust it, or "have faith" in the mayan calendar. If it really is a hoax, I hope someone does the research and shows it and I will read their work and discuss it.
+++1 Reminds me of an old Police song “…..to much information, running through my brain, too much information driven me insane….” Ghost in the Machine.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NDRRYMALyo
Maybe I won't use the word faith anymore, just like I don't like to use the word God to represent spiritual energy - they invoke bad feelings to me.
I actually don’t see how you can avoid using the word faith. At some point in the process of trying to sort things out, you are faced with things you simply cannot pigeon hole. You have to do the best you can with the information that you have while knowing all the while that there is more information and experience to come.

The word faith conjures up all sorts of negative connotations to a lot of people. It has for me though been the focus of my attention for the past 10+ years. No need for the ugly details, suffice to say that I had to know what it meant to me.

Purpose is another issue that eventually gets stirred. There are many people who for what ever reasons find themselves arriving at questioning why we are all here, and specifically, why am I here. A lot people have observed too many ‘sequenced’ events and things that only the word ‘otherness’ can describe, to hold to randomness anymore as a way of processing life. That’s why the Mayan calendar is interesting. It offers a system of understanding events.
Trusting our intuition can't be proven, you have to trust it through trial and error. Do you guys know what I mean? Sometimes I have an urge, maybe call it an instinct, to do something. If I don't act on it, I will regret it. Sometimes it is small, sometimes big. When I am in tune with this, life seems to just flow.. like a dream. It's really amazing. I have had so much anxiety and stress years before when I tried to force things to happen and resisted change.
This is a good description of my own journey. I call this space “Flow Zone.” Sounds a bit corny but it works for me. I originally started to mine this from a creative perspective. Why do songs pop into my head? How did that solution arrive when I never had any specific learning in that area? But I noticed other things that I can only describe as a ‘breaking through’ from the otherness. I think you all know what I mean. Why did I sense danger and instantaneously obey my instinct? Why did I have that urge to contact that person on the other side of the world, only to find that my call was perfect timing and the result was perfect?

I find myself right smack in the middle of ‘giving in’ to this flow zone. It is my personal belief that there is some sort of consciousness raising thing happening in a general sense also. I can see it with other people as well, including friends and family. But it is all happening in different ways for different people with different results, but with the general trend toward ‘awareness.’

My skepticism with the Mayan calendar and indeed other ‘institutions’ is that they can play on peoples natural desire for answers to the questions of meaning and purpose. Systems offer a way to pigeon hole things so that we don’t have to deal with them anymore. Christians over the years have been notoriously bad at this. Organized Systems/Institutions have a habit of becoming the focus of people’s attention with the result that people loose the intensity they had to find answers because they become busy telling people that they now have the answers!

There are many answered questions and I like thinking about them, It gives me an extra dimension in life, and hope for a better future, and reason to work towards one.
I can relate.
Heavensdaw - WOW. What an amazing story. I have heard about the reptilians and it was a bit much for me to believe. I hadn't heard a story from someone personally before though... Goes to show, anything is possible and something is up with those mayans... Maybe the reptilians were the ones who gave them the information about the calendar five thousand years ago
Props to HD. Making significant changes can take enormous amounts of energy. But like trying to push a car, once moving, motion is your friend.
iMac - 10.10.3 - Live 9 Suite - APC40 - Axiom 61 - TX81z - Firestudio Mobile - Focal Alpha 80's - Godin Session - Home made foot controller

zstowasser
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Post by zstowasser » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:08 am

Hey GJM! I'm so glad we've been able to find common ground. Where can I hear some of your music? I have some up on my myspace page - http://www.myspace.com/zstowasser

I also agree about my concerns with institutions telling people how to live.

I believe critical thinking is crucial for our survival. religion takes this away from people and they blindly follow the leader.

I like how the mayan calendar is more of a guide than control. The end of the calendar and its purpose are not set in stone.

Cool song! Yeah this world is a crazy place and it is only going to get crazier.. :)

respect, peace and love.

z
Zachary Stowasser & Stillwater Records - www.stillwaterrecords.com - www.myspace.com/zstowasser - feel good electronica - Info Patriots - sharing the truth - www.infopatriots.org

dcease
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Post by dcease » Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:48 pm

esad. stfu. diaf. smb. emsatetstys. go head and ask...

zstowasser
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Post by zstowasser » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:15 am

I just spent 3.5 hours posting an update to our energy supply (Peak Oil) and also news on Coal - we may peak in 15 years! Doh!

http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... -2008.html

dcease - wtf do you mean?? don't be shy.. ;)
Zachary Stowasser & Stillwater Records - www.stillwaterrecords.com - www.myspace.com/zstowasser - feel good electronica - Info Patriots - sharing the truth - www.infopatriots.org

gjm
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Post by gjm » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:22 am

dcease - wtf do you mean?? don't be shy..
Yeah Dr Cease, WTF did you mean?? Fess up dude!! :lol: :lol:
iMac - 10.10.3 - Live 9 Suite - APC40 - Axiom 61 - TX81z - Firestudio Mobile - Focal Alpha 80's - Godin Session - Home made foot controller

dcease
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Post by dcease » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:23 am

eat my shit and then eat the shit that you shit. but see, you missed the joke, because you only post political threads. a one word post in a fun thread does not constitute as participation. you are like the pron bots, one goal, and that is it... do you even use live? whut ev. i don't even want to argue, and i am an angry person. but don't worry about me, i have accepted who i am.

and it surely isn't shy...

zstowasser
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Post by zstowasser » Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:52 pm

Yeah I use live, It's great and its a forward thinking program. Its users tend to be forward thinking as well and I have learned all sorts of great things from this board (politically and musically).

I'm sorry that my main contribution lately has been political, it's just so glaring and obvious to me and I can't ignore it and want to share it :) If you want to hear the music I've made in Live check out my myspace - http://www.myspace.com/zstowasser

And this topic isn't quite political but more on the severity and urgency of the very possible crises that could take place in the near future.
Zachary Stowasser & Stillwater Records - www.stillwaterrecords.com - www.myspace.com/zstowasser - feel good electronica - Info Patriots - sharing the truth - www.infopatriots.org

earthloop
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Re: OT: The End of Suburbia

Post by earthloop » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:37 pm

forge wrote:
zstowasser wrote: And they are linked through the mindset of the status-quo ....
there they are again! they must be quite active these days

rockin all over the world

Image
It's funny how your past can haunt you! I know Alan Lancaster (Bass player status quo.. on the right in the picture). Haven't seen him for many years now since I moved from Sydney back home to Western Australia.

Ahhh...those were the days!!! 8)

dcease
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Post by dcease » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:54 pm

i'm going to buy me a new house!

zstowasser
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Post by zstowasser » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:27 pm

dcease wrote:i'm going to buy me a new house!
I hope you have ample room to plant some fruit trees, nut trees, berry bushes and room for potatoes, legumes and vegetables ;)

I have found the best movie on the subject of peak oil - "a crude awakening" - the film is linked on my blog - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... crash.html

Btw, peak oil update - The world's #2 oil producer russia says they will be in decline this year... If you think $4/gas is expensive.. just wait till the whole world is in decline. $10+, easy. Europe pays equivalent $300/barrel when we are paying $100.. so oil is still cheap. $0.15 a cup. less than starbucks! I have done some research and posted everything I found (except that new russia info), along with the possible new oil reserves and we are going to peak in coal much sooner than we thought. germany lowered their reserve estimates by 99% in one year! - http://infopatriots.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... -2008.html
Zachary Stowasser & Stillwater Records - www.stillwaterrecords.com - www.myspace.com/zstowasser - feel good electronica - Info Patriots - sharing the truth - www.infopatriots.org

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