3G iPhone 16GB = $299

kramerica · Post by **kramerica** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:14 pm

nonnus wrote:are you guys really complaining it is too cheap ???

Seriously, a company can "undercharge" for its products if it wants to. There's nothing unethical about it. If it's a bad idea, that company will be hurt by it's actions by way of financial loss. If it's a good idea, both the consumer and the producer win - the consumer having an affordable product and the producer getting a larger share of the market than it would of otherwise.

Microsoft did this with the Xbox and lost money on every Xbox sale. But it also positioned itself nicely in an extremely competitive market (video game industry), which isn't easy for a new company to break into. Now the Xbox line is the primary console on the market and thanks largely in part due to Microsoft's underpricing of its hardware.

nonnus · Post by **nonnus** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:18 pm

Machinate wrote:
nonnus wrote:are you guys really complaining it is too cheap ???

then you obviously aren't reading this thread at all....?!?

From a consumer standpoint this is GREAT news.
From a sort of globalisation standpoint it may be a bit more of a grey area.

i did it in the first place,...

to be fair only you seemed to find it ethically incorrect...
no one else really complained about the new price

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:21 pm

kramerica wrote:
nonnus wrote:are you guys really complaining it is too cheap ???

Seriously, a company can "undercharge" for its products if it wants to. There's nothing unethical about it.

So basically a company, acting within the law, can do no wrong? Say a Target opened up next to a local family-run grocery, and then underbid them. For a full year, until they were out of business, just to get them to...leave. Would that then also be "ethical"? I know it's a matter of personal preference, so bear with me in this thought-experiment here.

nonnus · Post by **nonnus** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:24 pm

are you really comparing phone manufacturers like nokia, sony ericsson or blackberry to a local family-run grocery ?

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:27 pm

no, I am asking someone other than you to practice what is called "Reductio Ad absurdum" to test the premise that companies can do no wrong as long as they're acting within the law. Please read the message carefully, it said nothing about cell phone manufacturers.

My stand point is a general one, really.

nonnus · Post by **nonnus** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:40 pm

heh, sorry for my misunderstanding then...

even so, IMHO
lots of companies do huge atrocities everyday entirelly within the law that are not ethical or correct in any way...

it does however not really relate to apple pricing policy
i just wish they decide to apply this new rules to all their hardware...

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:43 pm

[switching to consumer-mode]
don't get me wrong there, I will SO get an iphone soon. I think I'm ready too

And no, I don't think they'll do the same with the laptop/desktop market. That's still a very small part of their business, from what I gather. It's all about the iphones, ipods and iTunes.

TITBAG · Post by **TITBAG** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:51 pm

the phone is 199. wow. the contract will rape you. the phone should be free. fucking idiots.

thelike5 · Post by **thelike5** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:53 pm

TITBAG wrote:the phone is 199. wow. the contract will rape you. the phone should be free. fucking idiots.

+1

nonnus · Post by **nonnus** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:57 pm

Machinate wrote:[switching to consumer-mode]
don't get me wrong there, I will SO get an iphone soon. I think I'm ready too

And no, I don't think they'll do the same with the laptop/desktop market. That's still a very small part of their business, from what I gather. It's all about the iphones, ipods and iTunes.

i fully agree with you

was just throwing my wishes @ the web

i was just happy today to know that it will finally be available in my country on the 11 july (like yours i assume

and quite pleasantly surprised on the price drop

now i am curious if they will really stick with the 199 $ max ww pricing (according to xe.com: 199.00 USD = 127.218 EUR)

kramerica · Post by **kramerica** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:57 pm

Machinate wrote:no, I am asking someone other than you to practice what is called "Reductio Ad absurdum" to test the premise that companies can do no wrong as long as they're acting within the law. Please read the message carefully, it said nothing about cell phone manufacturers.

My stand point is a general one, really.

I would say, assuming the laws are ethical, then yes, a company can underbid it's next door "mom and pop" competitor. That's just business. The government shouldn't be protecting a small business from a big business by way of subsidies or anti-competition rules (generally) but of course there's a delicate balance between allowing a large business becoming extremely efficient through economy of scale and allowing a monopoly. But in most cases where monopolies existed, at least in U.S., they were only possible because of government collusion, subsidies, and other corrupt relationships between business and government. It's hard for a monopoly to exist in the free market.

Subsidies fuck everything up. So do certain anti-competition laws (see the German beer industry where they have the highest productivity costs in the world beer industry and lower profits than their competitors b/c of the strict protectionist laws in each province).

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:07 pm

kramerica wrote:
Machinate wrote:no, I am asking someone other than you to practice what is called "Reductio Ad absurdum" to test the premise that companies can do no wrong as long as they're acting within the law. Please read the message carefully, it said nothing about cell phone manufacturers.

My stand point is a general one, really.
I would say, assuming the laws are ethical, then yes, a company can underbid it's next door "mom and pop" competitor. That's just business.

I reckon that laws==ethical is a fallacy, to be honest. I can come up with quite a lot of things I COULD do within the law, but won't do, because I find them to be very unethical - many of them obscenely so. Can't you?

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:10 pm

Uh oh - but I believe anyone adopting an Iphone early (such as myself, like last Thursday) would in economic terms, call the money already spent on an Iphone a SUNK COST.

Nothing you can do about it (that money is already spent) it's about what you do next.

...and the plus side is, it'll be much cheaper to replace your phone if you lose it or break it.

people who have Iphones can still upgrade to version 2.0 and enjoy most, if not all the new features

life has been and will always be this way, no real point in feeling weird about it now

I love my phone and lucky for me living in the heart of Seattle my EDGE connection is pretty damn fast

they're great pieces of technology (imagine being on the Iphone development team) and I think everyone should have one

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:20 pm

kramerica wrote:
Subsidies fuck everything up. So do certain anti-competition laws (see the German beer industry where they have the highest productivity costs in the world beer industry and lower profits than their competitors b/c of the strict protectionist laws in each province).

+1

one of the major reasons people around the world aren't getting food to eat is because Wealthy countries like the US subsidize their farmers, which means localized farmers in poor countries can't compete

and apple could sell their Iphone for a $.25 if they wanted to...where does it say they can't - curious

if a firm is inefficient and cannot compete they should drop out of that market. otherwise, with the governments help (barriers against competition) you end up with a lot of inefficient firms giving people substandard goods

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:31 pm

I got my 8GB iPhone the day they dropped the price to 399, and honestly this price drop doesn;t bother me at all. It's paid for itself many times in how useful it's been since then, especially moving to a new city and now working outdoors away from normal internet access.

And why would anyone buy an iPhone last week? They've been saying for weeks and months now that new ones were coming at WWDC, oops!